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*Phil*
Opinionated Interventionist
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Posted: Sat May 2nd, 2009 07:42 pm |
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Garden Queen wrote and I copied to start a new thread:
I gotta find my interpretation of Revelation for this. For I am with Phil on this one.
Divine Vengeance, Terrorism, and the End of the World
A new thread I will start and summarize each chapter.
As I said before. We have been in the Tribulations and yes
it will get worse but it will have to before we can get
better.
I realize after being on some Forums and watching some of the
shows which I have just about stopped that the "gnashing of
teeth" for sure is going on and especially with the help of the
bloggers, forums etc. Our psychological , social, and economic
deaths have been going on in the churches, institutions and
banks but when we understand the true Christian truths that
Christ has passed on and learn what their inner meanings are
which have been clarified for us by Jung, Freud, Gurdjieff et.
we are prepared to face the end that is upon us. It will not be
the end for those who have done their inner work.
" It is a long process of reorientation and assimilation . Just as emergent Christianity required the devoted efforts of generations to assimilate the previous Greek learning, so modern psychology will gradually assimilate into its own forms and modes of understanding the products of human culture that have preceded it." ( Ralph Waldo Emerson)
Jung:
The problems which the integration of the unconscious sets modern doctors and psychologists can only be solved along the lines traced out by history, and the upshot will be a new assimilation of the traditional myth. This, however, presupposes the continuity of historical development. Naturally the present
tendency to destroy all tradition or render it unconscious could interrupt the normal process of development for several hundred years and sustitute an interlude of BARBARISM.
Jung CW 9ii,par 282
Edinger said this remark is a "prediction". (The Aion Lectures P 135)
We must remember the transition from classical Roman culture to mature Christian
organizations did result in a lot of blood and chaos, even centuries of what historians
call the "Dark Ages". It is Edinger's belief that we must expect something similar.
Edinger;
"It seems absolutely inevitable that immense turmoil , convulsive movements and eruptions of chaos in vast proportiOns are in the making so far as the political-historical aspeCt of mankind is concerned. THAT, I THINK WILL DWARF THE UPHEAVAL THAT TOOK PLACE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CHRISTIAN ERA WITH THE GRADUAL DISINTEGRATION OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE.
THAT WAS SMALL POTATOES BY COMPARISON TO WHAT WILL HAPPEN THIS TIME.
He does say it will be bearable if we understand the meaning. No biblical book--with the exception of Daniel discusses the theme of cultural transition more than Revelation.
I will put this up (unless Roy does not want it) on the thread with Jung, Gurdjieff etc.
____________________
Pecca fortiter, sed fortius fide et gaude in Christo!
Galactic Signature: Blue Self-Existing Monkey
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Roy
Quasi-Infallible Egocentric Tyrant
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Posted: Sat May 2nd, 2009 07:54 pm |
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No problem with me, Phil. Your call, and it seems a good one to me. I will be meditating on this one.
____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
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*Phil*
Opinionated Interventionist
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Posted: Sun May 3rd, 2009 02:30 am |
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Here is a picture of what an eschatological event looks like. This is a graph of the population of Rome. Look at the sudden vanishing of the urban population.
It is as if the Roman Empire passed through a shock-wave or singularity in time. A break down in the ruling ideology's effectiveness. Like what we are living through today? (I am resisting mightly the urge to say something about todays political system!)
Is a shock wave setting up for us in the near future? For example Terence Mckenna's Time-Wave Zero has a singularity of infinite creation/novelty, the eschaton, waiting for us in 2012.
Fr. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin theorized that God is pulling evolution towards Himself. He calls this future target or goal the Omega but as we move towards the Omega and our consciousness and complexity increases a periodic and spontaneous self reorganization of the complex system into a higher conscious/complexity is necessary. With each forward step of evolution both our individuality/personalization and conscious connectedness to the Omega increases.
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Pecca fortiter, sed fortius fide et gaude in Christo!
Galactic Signature: Blue Self-Existing Monkey
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deRodes
Honored Fellow Grover
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Posted: Sun May 3rd, 2009 11:47 am |
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A nurse pointed this out to me:
Deceived by the Dialectic Process
From Twisting Truth through Group Consensus: "Tension, created by diversity, is essential to the dialectic process. It energizes members and -- when manipulated by well-trained facilitators -- produces synergy. You can't guide people toward synthesis (compromise) unless there are opposing views -- both "thesis and antithesis." That's why the consensus process must include all these elements:
- a diverse group
- dialoguing to consensus
- over a social issue
- led by a trained facilitator
- toward a pre-planned outcome.
The true dialectic group never reaches a final consensus, for "continual change" is an ongoing process: one step today, another tomorrow. To permanently change the way we think and relate to each other, our leaders must set the stage for conflict and compromise week after week, year after year. Dialectical thinking and group consensus must become as normal as eating. Eventually, people learn to discard their old mental anchors and boundaries -- all the facts and certainties that built firm convictions. They become like boats adrift, always ready to shift with the changing winds and currents.
From Small Groups and the Dialectic Process: Today's facilitated small groups or teams are not like the old Bible studies many of us attended years ago. Back then, we discussed the Bible and its wonderful truths; now people dialogue until they reach an emotional form of unity based on "empathy" for diverse views and values. Dr. Robert Klench describes the process:
"Total Quality Management [TQM] is based upon the Hegelian dialectic, invented by Georg Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel, a transformational Marxist social psychologist. Briefly, the Hegelian dialectic process works like this: a diverse group of people (in the church, this is a mixture of believers (thesis) and unbelievers (antithesis), gather in a facilitated meeting (with a trained facilitator/teacher/group leader/change agent), using group dynamics (peer pressure), to discuss a social issue (or dialogue the Word of God), and reach a pre-determined outcome (consensus, compromise, or synthesis).
"When the Word of God is dialogued (as opposed to being taught didactically) between believers and unbelievers... and consensus is reached – agreement that all are comfortable with – then the message of God's Word has been watered down... and the participants have been conditioned to accept (and even celebrate) their compromise (synthesis). The new synthesis becomes the starting point (thesis) for the next meeting, and the process of continual change (innovation) continues.
"The fear of alienation from the group is the pressure that prevents an individual from standing firm for the truth of the Word of God, and such a one usually remains silent (self-editing). The fear of man (rejection) overrides the fear of God. The end result is a 'paradigm shift' in how one processes factual information."
Background information:
● Georg Hegel (1770 – 1831), an occultist, laid the foundation for Communist brainwashing. Today, his compromising philosophy and transformational process are changing churches as well as politics, education, business and communities.
● Karl Marx (1818 – 1883) adapted Hegel's philosophy to his vision of a Communist/socialist world system. (See From Marx to Lenin, Gramsci & Alinsky)
● Like Marx, Lenin and Stalin saw Hegelian dialectic process as an essential tool for managing the masses. Through their hierarchical system of soviets (groups led by trained facilitators who led the group dialogue toward a prescribed and evolving consensus). Everyone had to trade individual thinking for collective thinking and communal values. The vision of "common good" was simply the carrot that justified total and cruel control. (See When Iron Gates Yield).
● The United Nations (1995) has promoted the dialectic process around the world. Like the mythical Phoenix rising out of its ashes, the UN emerged from the fiery devastation of World War II as a beacon of light to utopian humanists and their hopeful followers. Within two years after Communist leader Alger Hiss presided over its birth, some of its most powerful agencies had been established.
● UNESCO (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization) would be led by Julian Huxley -- brother of Aldous and a Fabian Socialist. He made the dialectic process the heart of UNESCO's global education plan. In his 1947 book, UNESCO: Its purpose and Its Philosophy, he wrote: "The task before UNESCO... is to help the emergence of a single world culture. ....at the moment, two opposing philosophies of life confront each other from the West and from the East.... You may categorize the two philosophies as two super-nationalisms, or as individualism versus collectivism.... or as capitalism versus communism, or as Christianity versus Marxism. Can these opposites be reconciled, this antithesis be resolved in a higher synthesis? ...through the inexorable dialectic of evolution, it must happen....
"In pursuing this aim, we must eschew [shun] dogma - whether it be theological dogma or Marxist dogma.... East and West will not agree on a basis of the future if they merely hurl at each other the fixed ideas of the past. For that is what dogma's are -- the crystallizations of some dominant system of thought .... If we are to achieve progress, we must learn to uncrystalize our dogmas."
● WHO (The World Health Organization) was led by Canadian psychiatrist Brock Chisholm. He summarized his socialist philosophy at a 1946 US conference on mental health. His message was published by the (now prestigious) magazine Psychiatry, and by his Communist friend, Alger Hiss in the socialist magazine, International Conciliation. Notice the obstacles to "mental health":
"Can we identify the reasons why we fight wars...? Many of them are easy to list -- prejudice, isolationism, the ability to emotionally and uncritically to believe unreasonable things....
"The only psychological force capable of producing these perversions is morality, the concept of right and wrong.... For many generations we have bowed our necks to the yoke of the conviction of sin. We have swallowed all manner of poisonous certainties fed us by our parents, our Sunday and day school teachers....
"Individuals who have emotional disabilities of their own -- guilts, fears, inferiorities -- are certain to project their hates on to others... Whatever the cost, we must learn to live in friendliness and peace with... all the people in the world...."
Those "poisonous certainties" include all the unchanging truths and values that can't be compromised. That's why Biblical Christianity was -- and continues to be -- incompatible with the world's standards for "mental health." Many who refuse to conform to the evolving guidelines for tolerance, inclusiveness, group dialogue and adaptability to the UN plan for "continual change" are facing severe consequences.5 [See "Ban truth, reap tyranny"]
Like Karl Marx, today's globalist leaders seek ways to undermine Biblical truth. They know that the main obstacle to global solidarity, is God's uncompromising Word. They cannot build "a single world culture" without first undermining absolute Truth. After all, that's why Christians were persecuted in the Soviet Union and other Communist countries!
con't
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Politicians and diapers should be changed often - for the same reason!
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Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruit. Proverbs 18:21
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Garden Queen
Honored Fellow Grover
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Posted: Sun May 3rd, 2009 07:07 pm |
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Thank you deRodes and Phil for these contributions. I am going
to continue posting sections and summarizing Edinger.
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*Phil*
Opinionated Interventionist
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 04:44 pm |
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From just about every perspective the End of Days and The World to Come is a Transformation process.
Now --->>> Transformation --->>> The World to Come
The Bible says the World-to-Come after the NWO fails:
(Rev 20:2 KJV) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
So after the painful process of transformation we will get a thousand years of Wholesome Good Times.
____________________
Pecca fortiter, sed fortius fide et gaude in Christo!
Galactic Signature: Blue Self-Existing Monkey
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Roy
Quasi-Infallible Egocentric Tyrant
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 04:52 pm |
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The psychics I know and the book, Dreams of the Future, predict 300 years of real difficulty as we enter that 1000 years of peace.
The 300 years are a design of the Spirit, so to speak, where the garbage and the garbagemen take over, the garbagemen being the naguals who lead the testiest and most resistant, the garbage, to the Spirit.
De Chardin is an interesting man for us ID folks.
Last edited on Mon May 4th, 2009 04:52 pm by Roy
____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
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*Phil*
Opinionated Interventionist
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Posted: Thu May 7th, 2009 07:42 pm |
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Time and space is highly elastic in the unconscious so 300 years may not be what actually transpires. I have to wonder what the Garbagemen will be like. Will they work individually like in a Clint Eastwood western?
The types of societies forecasted are interesting
First: sylvan, ecologically-sound creative and spiritual communities widely scattered in temperate zones;
Second: hi-tech cities dependent on domes and other artificial protections against a harsh exterior environment;
Third: isolated, rustic settlements of people who have forsaken technological solutions to Earth's problems, returning to a simpler, less-complex life-style;
Fourth: space-farers who inhabit artificial space stations above the Earth, or build protected colonies on nearby planets like Mars.
Could the fourth type be the source of the "New Jerusalem" ??
____________________
Pecca fortiter, sed fortius fide et gaude in Christo!
Galactic Signature: Blue Self-Existing Monkey
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Roy
Quasi-Infallible Egocentric Tyrant
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Posted: Thu May 7th, 2009 08:06 pm |
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Sometimes, they will teach us to pray. I wrote this about the National Day of Prayer story at NowPublic.com.
Here is an interesting book which has some interesting sections on prayer- Jacob Needleman's Lost Christianity where he focuses on the difference between emotion ( a defense) and feeling (a psychological reality).
To spiritualize yourself and develop soul, you must learn to get behind the defensive emotions and get to the real feeling. Real feeling is an expression of the Self. Hanging on the cross would mean dealing responsibly with one's pain, as opposed to "acting out", which would be the way a person got lost reacting to an unfelt feeling.
Needelman is a professor of philosophy at the very secular San Fran State. He was raised Jewish and is a student of Gurdjieff, who held similar positions about developing soul, and end result of self-remembering, an exercise used to bring about intense experiences of conscience.
It is the soul’s birth in the human that must be aimed for. That is the prerequisite for the true Christianity which is now lost.
Needleman argues fundamentally from a totally pessimistic standpoint: true Christianity can no longer be found (p. 88f); modern men and women’s prayers have no effect (p. 95); and Christendom has "no force, no power to bring about change" (p. 119).
The presupposition for that judgment seems to be Gurdjieff’s moralistic view that "a Christian is a man who is able to fulfill the Commandments" (p. 170). Gurdjieff, therefore, calls humans "pre-Christian" (p. 171).
Needleman thinks a change in that condition can occur only by reviving "the esoteric tradition. (p. 187), because "the symbol guides the search" (p. 188). It is the symbol’s power, which issues from the idea of the soul, that must be restored. The esoterica are "ideas, practices and methods of living that support the process of awakening" (p. 122).
But Needleman realizes that is only possible for a very few informed people; namely, those who have "the spark of God within them" and whose goal must be "to sever their bondage to the world and its people, to remember their real origins and escape from the death-dealing pleasures and pains of the created universe in which they find themselves" (p. 201).
Although those are Father Sylvan’s words, I wonder if they aren’t also Needleman’s. In the final analysis, only "these special individuals" interest him.
"There are two species of human beings; one at home in this darkened, deceptive and evil world; the other an ‘alien race’ thrown into this world" (p. 203). Those two races are in all of us, and all people are called to catholicism. Gnosis, if we receive it, shows us our lack of response to that call (p. 204).
Source: dci.dk
____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
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