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Irks
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Posted: Sat May 21st, 2005 01:01 pm |
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Psycho Gizmo wrote: Hell, Irks. Even your hero Edward Kennedy has stated clearly that the results of the 2000 election were the valid and legitimate expression of the electoral process. Even he has gotten over it, why not the rest of his party?
Are you folks so desperate for emotional momentum that you will drum up issues in order to rally the faithful to the cause?
Emotional momentum... you are running with a lot of it this thread PG.
I simply stated that a decision which should have been of judicial legitimacy, was drawn along party lines (every democrat on the USSC voted one way, every republican voted the other), and could not have shown a clearer picture about what really matters to everyone at the top. You seem to think I am vouching for results to be different, not all of them to be hung (or at least replaced) for not agreeing on something so important and basic. If it was 9-0, the demmy's wouldn't still be whining about it PG.
Last edited on Sat May 21st, 2005 01:08 pm by Irks
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Psycho Gizmo
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Posted: Sat May 21st, 2005 03:40 pm |
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Point of information, the essential Gore vs. State of Florida vote was seven to two, not five to four.
It could be argued that the Democratic-supporting four judges betrayed their ethics in an attempt to ratify the initial judicial activism of the arch-liberal Florida Supreme court, thereby setting a precedent for lower judges which has created a disturbence in the force. Judicial activism is the usurpation of power from the electorate and the legislature.
It failed in Florida and that is what galls the far leftists. They imagine that if they had just had one more elitist on the HIgh Court bench, they could have stolen the election from the Florida electorate (ratified five times over in recount after recount) and stolen the executive branch for at least four years.
PG
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Corvus
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Posted: Sat May 21st, 2005 07:33 pm |
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Then Corvus would ask,
What does it all . . . matter . . . they are all corrupt.
____________________
"In a person (not Corvus) who is open to experience each stimulus is freely relayed through the nervous system, without being distorted by any process of defensiveness." -C. Rogers
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Irks
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Posted: Sat May 21st, 2005 10:42 pm |
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Psycho Gizmo wrote: Point of information, the essential Gore vs. State of Florida vote was seven to two, not five to four.
Friday, Dec. 8—The Florida Supreme Court, ruling on Gore's appeal, orders manual recounts in counties with large numbers of undervotes. Bush appeals to the U.S. Supreme Court and seeks injunction to stop recounts.
In two separate lawsuits, Leon County Circuit Court judges refuse to throw out absentee ballots from Seminole and Martin counties that had been disputed by Gore.
Saturday, Dec. 9—The U.S. Supreme Court votes 5–4 to halt the hand recounts and sets a hearing for Dec. 11.
Florida Supreme Court hears appeal on whether absentee ballots in Martin and Seminole counties should be counted.
Tuesday, Dec. 12—The U.S. Supreme Court rules in Bush v. Gore 7–2 to reverse the Florida Supreme Court, which had ordered manual recounts in certain counties. The Court contends that the recount was not treating all ballots equally, and was thus a violation of the Constitution's equal protection and due process guarantees. The Supreme Court of Florida would be required to set up new voting standards and carry them out in a recount. The justices, however, split 5–4 along partisan lines about implementing a remedy. Five justices maintain that this process and the recount must adhere to the official deadline for certifying electoral college votes: midnight, Dec. 12; other justices question the importance of this date. Since the Court makes its ruling just hours before the deadline, it in effect ensures that it is too late for a recount. The decision generates enormous controversy. Those objecting to the ruling assert that the Supreme Court, and not the electorate, has effectively determined the outcome of the presidential election. As Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg writes in a scathing dissent, “the Court’s conclusion that a constitutionally adequate recount is impractical is a prophecy the Court’s own judgment will not allow to be tested. Such an untested prophecy should not decide the Presidency of the United States.”
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0884144.html
Yes, one of the votes was 7 to 2. The one most people are appalled with is the 5-4 to stop the hand recount split along party lines.
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Psycho Gizmo
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Posted: Sat May 21st, 2005 11:16 pm |
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Irks, you have a gift for minutiea. It is "appalling" that the liberal Florida Supreme Court was not allowed to rachet election laws? It is surprising that Ginsberg, perhaps one of the most liberal judges ever to sit on the Supreme Court dissents bitterly?
The 7-2 vote was in my own opinion, more significant legally since it put a stop to the racheting process at the local level.
The vote-manufacturing process being supervised by mob experts from Chicago was arrested.
Certification of the genuine total within a certain time period was a mandate by law that the Florida Secretary of State was obliged to uphold.
I still cannot fathom the desperate outrage that the Supreme Court would not allow a recount of ballots that later were found to have been inadequate anyway to have won the election for your candidate by FIVE RECOUNTS.
SO WHAT THE HELL IS ALL OF THE WHINING ON THE U.S.S.C. REVERSING A LOWER COURT ALL ABOUT?
In my opinion, it is about finding any reason for liberals to stay angry at someone besides themselves, and feeling motivated to behave in an obstructive manner towards opponents, instead of being rational and fair. It is about acting like a collective of asses.
But, again with all due respect to your basic good character, you liberal folks are letting emotions (need for rationalizations of outrage) rule your intellect, and you do not see it. It does not serve you or your cause (some of which I share) any good at all.
Do you really believe the lies of "experts" who swear that the only reason the Democrats have lost four straight major elections in this country is that the GOP are better story tellers and liars? Come on, Irks.
If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Does the term "nostrum" mean anything to you? Anger without rational argument to sustain it is merely palliative.
PG
Last edited on Sat May 21st, 2005 11:21 pm by
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*Phil*
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Posted: Sun May 22nd, 2005 01:24 pm |
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Corvus wrote: Then Corvus would ask,
What does it all . . . matter . . . they are all corrupt.
Kick the rascals out! Activism by the common man is probably the only thing that will work. The government belongs to us and not those elitists who can go through 4 billion of our dollars during a single lunch.
____________________
Pecca fortiter, sed fortius fide et gaude in Christo!
Galactic Signature: Blue Self-Existing Monkey
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Roy
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Posted: Sun May 22nd, 2005 04:53 pm |
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Johnny,
How many years do I have to hear excuses from and apologies for the progressive wing of humanity while they stubbornly look the other way about their own failure to live up to their self-professed ideals?
The far left just sucks and isn't progressive at all but wants a hell that they themselves are the head devils thereof.
"Newsweek" has written many, many bad articles.
I will tell you how I know.
When I lived in Italy, I taught English to a lot of "important" people who one would have to consider to be "well-connected" people. So, I was in a position to judge how well a story in Newsweek or Time had been done that concerned Italy and Europe.
Let me cut to the cutting room floor. They stink. They f-ing, f-ing, f-ing just plain f-ing stink.
So, when I hear about this false reporting from Newsweek, I am not surprised.
The journalist does not want accountability. That would mean letting red-neck working class people who can't even spell decide that journalists, the high priests of the Media World, were wrong.
Classism, snobbery, leftist anima-possession, elitism, and general arrogance might be a good description of the qualities we should see in journalists.
You don't think that Goldberg who wrote Arrogance and Bias, a real old-school Kennedy Democrat, anti-communist and pro-civil rights guy, chose those titles to describe the f-ing establishment media did that just to create controversy?
Roy
PS I once drove a young woman, a Stanford graduate, who was a journalist for Time magazine, to the airport.
In that brief trip I got confirmation on all my "prejudices" about the world of journalists.
And she was a lousy tipper as well, even after I had provided her with great lead to do a story on anabolic steroids.
Oh. She thought it was awful that the Army had planned to use the NFL footballer who volunteered to go to Afghanistan for publicity.
Pure animus-possession. Fear of masculinity. Judgments without facts and real reasoning processing with the arrogance of self-qualification.
Last edited on Mon May 23rd, 2005 12:12 am by Roy
____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
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*Phil*
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Posted: Sun May 22nd, 2005 05:39 pm |
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Roy wrote: Johnny,
How many years do I have to hear excuses from and apologies for the progressive wing of humanity while they stubbornly look the other way about their own failure to live up to their self-professed ideals?
The far left just sucks and isn't progressive at all but wants a hell that they themselves are the head devils thereof.
"NewsweeK" has written many, many bad articles.
I will tell you how I know.
When I lived in Italy, I taught English to a lot of "important" people are "well-connected" people. So, I was in a position to judge how well a story in Newsweek or Time had been done that concerned Italy and Europe.
Let me cut to the cutting room floor. They stink. They f-ing, f-ing, f-ing just plain f-ing stink.
So, when I hear about this false reporting from Newsweek, I am not surprised.
The journalist does not want accountability. They would mean letting red-neck working class people who can't even spell decide that journalists, the high priests of the Media World were wrong.
Classism, snobbery, leftist anima-possession, elitism, and general arrogance might be a good description of the way we should see journalists.
You don't think that Goldberg who wrote Arrogance and Bias, a real old-school Kennedy Democrat, anti-communist and pro-civil rights guy chose those titles to describe the f-ing establishment media did that just to creat controversy?
Roy
PS I once drove a young woman, a Stanford graduate, to the airport who was a journalist for Time magazine.
In that bried trip I got confirmation on all my "prejudices" about the world of jounalists.
And she was a lousy tipper as well, even after I had provided her with great lead to do a story on anabolic steroids.
Oh. She thought it was awful that the Army had planned to use the NFL footballer who volunteered to go to Afghanistan for publicity was just terrible.
Pure animus-possession. Fear of masculinity. Judgments without facts and real reasoning processing with the arrogance of self-qualification.
The vast majority of journalists are not smart enough, too stupid, to figure out what is going on and so get played like a Stradivarius.
____________________
Pecca fortiter, sed fortius fide et gaude in Christo!
Galactic Signature: Blue Self-Existing Monkey
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Psycho Gizmo
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Posted: Sun May 22nd, 2005 11:31 pm |
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*Phil* wrote: Corvus wrote: Then Corvus would ask,
What does it all . . . matter . . . they are all corrupt.
Kick the rascals out! Activism by the common man is probably the only thing that will work. The government belongs to us and not those elitists who can go through 4 billion of our dollars during a single lunch.
Well there is another ripping thread-starter if I've ever heard one.
It has been said by those who are smarter than I, that answers are important only in so far as they lead to the next pertinent question.
I have an interest in setting up volunteer camps for inner city youths who want to escape their home environment in order
to be able to study and rest effectively - which is very difficult in the sensory and cramped overload of some neighborhoods.
The Japanese for instance, have arrangements through their corporations to provide decent housing (in terms of
their children's needs) and even child-care in exchange for living at a company facility. Sort of like in the screen play for Cameron's Alien's or Herbert's Dune. The corporation took care of people's basic biological needs, to a large extent.
The only corporate housing I have identified here in the L.A. market in premium tier executive housing. Long term rentals
of homes or apartments in proximity are cheaper than buying, especially for executives who travel.
So it would be nice to start as a non-profit and build home ownership with blue-collar workers. When home ownership and employment goes up in a community, the crime and the "derelict youth" tragedy is drastically lessened. All some kids want is a place to be safe, sleep, eat and study. I wish to see all kids in this world able to have that.
We all know that our inner cities are in need of radical restructuring. The civil engineers have thrown up their hands and labeled the problem "too complex" for science to solve.
Perhaps general efforts should be made to render the system more weildy, so that good guidance when available, is effective.
There were times in my own youth, when I would have benefitted from an opportunity to take refuge in a place of
peace, quiet, neutral peers and only the responsibilities of a simple laborer's job to sustain my daily needs. If I could help to provide that for needy kids, maybe they'd stick with school and excel, rather than drop out to grab the first low-wage job that provides a ticket, any ticket out of Hell.
Political terms lose meaning to a large degree when we break things down to deprived people with serious problems. All that matters then is a rational plan of action to achieve remedy (...long silence-sudden burst of laughter from all assembled)!
" '...rational (ha-ha)plan of (hah!hah!) action!', is that a good one!"- Homer Simpson
PG
Last edited on Fri May 27th, 2005 04:50 pm by
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Corvus
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Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2005 05:00 am |
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I think the key to inner city problems is held by that community. They need to take matters into their own hands and prove to the man they are worth investing in. Relying on the "man" to fix the problems is only good until the next round of budget cuts comes cycling back and the first to feel it's effects are those who need the budget the most. We need to foster responsibility as a whole community. When we start allowing the "liberals" to manage things they take on that responsibility and guide with the fools gold rod of understanding abandoning those who would lead their communities efforts. Many Conservatives are only concerned about their immediate surroundings and are not willing to fertilize the neighbor's lawn.
I agree with P'arental G'uidance, the best place to start is with the kids . . . how do you reach them all? Because just reaching a few is not every going to solve the problem.
I can hear poor Elvis moan
As the snow flies
On a cold and gray Chicago mornin'
A poor little baby child is born
In the ghetto
And his mama cries
'cause if there's one thing that she don't need
it's another hungry mouth to feed
In the ghetto
People, don't you understand
the child needs a helping hand
or he'll grow to be an angry young man some day
Take a look at you and me,
are we too blind to see,
do we simply turn our heads
and look the other way
Well the world turns
and a hungry little boy with a runny nose
plays in the street as the cold wind blows
In the ghetto
And his hunger burns
so he starts to roam the streets at night
and he learns how to steal
and he learns how to fight
In the ghetto
Then one night in desperation
a young man breaks away
He buys a gun, steals a car,
tries to run, but he don't get far
And his mama cries
As a crowd gathers 'round an angry young man
face down on the street with a gun in his hand
In the ghetto
As her young man dies,
on a cold and gray Chicago mornin',
another little baby child is born
In the ghetto
And his mama cries -Scott Davis
____________________
"In a person (not Corvus) who is open to experience each stimulus is freely relayed through the nervous system, without being distorted by any process of defensiveness." -C. Rogers
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Johnny
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Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2005 02:13 pm |
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Roy wrote: How many years do I have to hear excuses from and apologies for the progressive wing of humanity while they stubbornly look the other way about their own failure to live up to their self-professed ideals?
The far left just sucks and isn't progressive at all but wants a hell that they themselves are the head devils thereof.
"Newsweek" has written many, many bad articles.
I will tell you how I know.
When I lived in Italy, I taught English to a lot of "important" people who one would have to consider to be "well-connected" people. So, I was in a position to judge how well a story in Newsweek or Time had been done that concerned Italy and Europe.
Let me cut to the cutting room floor. They stink. They f-ing, f-ing, f-ing just plain f-ing stink.
So, when I hear about this false reporting from Newsweek, I am not surprised.
The journalist does not want accountability. That would mean letting red-neck working class people who can't even spell decide that journalists, the high priests of the Media World, were wrong.
Classism, snobbery, leftist anima-possession, elitism, and general arrogance might be a good description of the qualities we should see in journalists.
You don't think that Goldberg who wrote Arrogance and Bias, a real old-school Kennedy Democrat, anti-communist and pro-civil rights guy, chose those titles to describe the f-ing establishment media did that just to create controversy?
Roy
PS I once drove a young woman, a Stanford graduate, who was a journalist for Time magazine, to the airport.
In that brief trip I got confirmation on all my "prejudices" about the world of journalists.
And she was a lousy tipper as well, even after I had provided her with great lead to do a story on anabolic steroids.
Oh. She thought it was awful that the Army had planned to use the NFL footballer who volunteered to go to Afghanistan for publicity.
Pure animus-possession. Fear of masculinity. Judgments without facts and real reasoning processing with the arrogance of self-qualification.
O.K. since you and PG are burning for a Far-Left Poster Boy you've got your wish.
I can accomodate.
If there wasn't a Far Left for you to whine about, to absorb all your embarrassing experiences trying to interact with people who blew you off, then who would be next.
Tell me Roy who's next on your hit list for hatred and vilification. Somebody's gotta burn for all the malfunctions and it's not going to be the Far Left my friend. The Far Left took off in that airplane to write a news article in Time before you could reset your meter and pick up the next important person who had to be somewhere important.
If you guys think tearing down Newsweek and hanging all its editors is going to keep radical, provincially minded Muslims from going apeshit and killing people when a copy of the Quran gets a little dust on it then I'm very happy you're not in control of this country.
You don't see Prez Bush obsessing over this issue. He's got more important problems like keeping the Red Cross from revealing additional abuses by our military personnel towards the detainees we're holding in Cuba.
Thanks to the Far Left now you know how we are seen by the people who were born and make their lives in a few of the countries we occupy. I guess it's easier to hate the Far Left than confront the real problem...
Jesus Christ and I don't support the right to abortion and agree with the death penalty!
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Roy
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Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2005 03:52 pm |
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I grew up with right wing Catholics and left wing Quakers.
Which side seemed more insane depended on the issue.
In my generation and yours, the left predominates.
Even Bush has all these qualms about just shutting down the border even after 9/11.
Unbelievable. It means the guilt-monging has worked because it ain't all the result of trying to get Hispanics to vote for you. The Hispanics that vote don't actually oppose it all. Yes it is also true that capitalists want to enlarge the consumer base in the US and keep the price of labor down.
Funny how the "left" doesn't get this. Then again it is not funny, just how the Modern Liberal disease works.
But, back to investigating abuse: I have nothing againt investigating anything and finding the people responsible.
I doubt, though, having worked in a jail school that there is a jail in the world without its abusers.
I don't trust the International Red Cross, either.
People and journalists in particular, used to write these long articles about the "terrible conditions" in which the Irish Republican Armny lived in English jails.
Most everything they described though was the result of the IRA men throwing their own feces about and such.
Yes, the Brits put some innocent people in jail. Everyone does that too, but that is not offered as an excuse.
Modern Liberals as opposed to True Liberals (as it were) are actually sick people.
I actually am a "true liberal", just as Goldberg, the author of Bias and Arrogance is.
We find ourselves without a party to identify with as in essence we have been exiled by the Democrats because we fail all their politically correct litmus tests.
What the f*** a-hole of the Nth degree would choose to put Dean as the head of the Demos? This may shed some light on the degree of our anger, Johnny.
Laudable pus.
It is the pus that means the wound is going to heal, but it is still disgusting.
Maybe Dean is just "laudable pus".
But Reich is right. His "modern liberals" are sick people with unresolved Oedipal Complexes and a strong tendency to attempt to compete with father figures subversively.
They lay the groundwork for the real creatures of the herd, who in turn lay the groundwork for the real sickies, the Communists.
Yes, the right has its sickness, too, but as you can see in the West, the reactionary John Waynes of this world have all been put out to pasture.
Many have even apparently been "gilded" and have become nice co-operative "modern liberals" where their power complex (Ectopathy Extroadinare) is subordinated to the Feminine Principle which wishes to monopolize power.
Roy
____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
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Psycho Gizmo
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Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2005 06:04 pm |
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It seems to me Johnny, that nobody here is advocating any of those things that formed the basis for your complaints above at all. If you choose to take this political debate personally that is your own choice. I do not advocate overly identifying with any political dynamic.
Look Johnny, subtract the Iraqi Freedom War and I'd be willing to bet that our camp's respective philisophies come down to workable parameters of flexibility.
It is just that those forces in our society who wish all of the rest of us to believe that patriotism is best expressed by obstinacy, obstruction, wrench-tossing, foot-dragging, betrayal and infamy are wrong.
Essentially rational conservatism generally wants less government control of everything, not more. That is the essential difference these days.
What might help the left to re-form is a realization that non-Traditional or Atheistic Secular Liberal Humanism is a religion and that by pushing it as the only permissible expresssion of spirituality in public, the proponents of the political causes attached suffer greatly.
That is one reason why the rift between the religious people who vote Republican and the religious people who vote Democratic cannot be easily bridged. The left is philosphically married to neo-Marxist secular humanism as administered by an all-pervasive state (the myth that control=mastery), which is simply a politically derived religion (religious defined as :anything done regularly) based upon anti-tradationalism.
It's proponents in government want to exclude practice and representation of all traditional Theistic spirituality in the public sector (which unlike Secular/Atheistic Humanism, do acknowledge their own status as religions).That is counter both to libertarian principles and those of the Founding Fathers to freedom of religious expression, not freedom from religious expression. Stalinist.
There is evidence that the far left favors growth of government control and dependancy of the populace upon it. Many do not want people being inner directed- not even by religious convictions or instinctual impulses! Better, in their view that we all be controlled and guided only by the external rules and "collective morality" of the State like willing, emotionless, subserviant automatons. Enslaved in mind and body to the Parental State.
The "culturally cutting-edge" French are so intolerent of religions (other than the unofficial state-religion of Secular Humanism) that they banned the wearing of headscarves by Muslim school girls.
I have heard that John Kerry frequently speaks French when cursing his own country. I would think that such an outrageously presumptive and arrogant usurpation of rule of the platform by concensus (as designed) on the part of the Democratic leadership would enrage a Christian as you personally far more than any stipulated sin of the Bush administration to date.
Whatever sins the conservatives are committing on the fringes of their movement, seem minuscule compared to volume and magnitude of those from the far left in the last five years.
That is what this thread was supposed to be about - not a moral indictment of any single human being or company. Nobody posted a word about punishing Newsweek editors, except those who put forward an incendiary story that they knew might be wrong. Maybe you should send Whitiker a nice gift-basket Johnny, and a note telling him that you personally forgive them - so they can plan to help others to follow their leadership.
I believe that karma will punish Newsweek, in the sense that I personally will not have to act in any way to see misfortune come to them. That is because I believe that those men and that corporation knew full well it was morally wrong to run the story, but they just didn't care. Those cynical heartless bastards knew innocent people might die in rioting. I'd be willing to bet that the universe will punish them without my help being required. Just as I would be punished for such a grievous sin against common sense and decency.
I thought the lack of common sense and decency were maladies of the left just during the Bill Clinton administration era. Apparently not.
But the parameters of journalistic credibility have extended to the very borders of legality. That is the issue on the desperate far-left Media's betrayal of society and culture. So many such incidents have happened recently that one can only assume that discussions in Media Mogul board rooms (or bored rooms) must end with questions such as, "Is there a chance that we can get away with running this story and not go to jail or have to resign?"
The callous Stalinesque way the arrogant Newsweek spokesman dismissed the suffering and loss that they initiated by their irresponsible actions, implies that still more damage will occur at the hands of desperate leftist journalists. I suppose every liberal outlet will have their turn. Commit treason or some other heinous act, vehemently deny that you intended to do anything wrong, issue tepid, reluctant apology to vague persons unspecified! Repeat.
Newsweek Official Statement:
Dear NAME. Your son/daughter/spouse/mother/father was involved in a regrettable incident specifically:a wanton anti- Western riot sparked by a false story that somehow appeared accidentally in a million magazines all over the world without being verified by anyone in authority. Mistakes were made and some people somewhere like you poor shmucks, got dead. We regret any inconvenience their sudden violent death created for you, and even more the incovenience it created for us. A gift certificate for a year's free subscription to Newsweek is enclosed. Sorry again for our little boo-boo. It won't happen again. We cross our hearts, and hope to die! Really we do...
Newsweek, like the NY/LA Times, CBS, CNN, have been scrambling since 1998 with all of the power of the News Media Giants to come up with a story, (any story!) with traction to hurt the Bush adminstration, past present and future. Even if people have to die in the attempt. Remember how many died following the "idealistic dreams" of Karl Marx in Russia.
That's all I'm tryin' to say. I've got nothin' but love for Johnny!!
PGLast edited on Tue May 24th, 2005 05:49 am by
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Roy
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Posted: Tue May 24th, 2005 01:53 am |
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Actually, just to reply to one point you have made there, Gizmoniffic: I happen to agree with the assessment of the French to ban the head scarves.
I read about what was going on in their schools and how the head scarves are used by the Muslims to help segregate rather tnan integrete their children.
I can't remember the specifics, but after I read the articlle I happened to agree with the French.
When you read that article about the Russian satirists you might agree with Putin appointing the governors as well.
It all depends on the intent, and the circumstances.
Roy
____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
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Corvus
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Posted: Tue May 24th, 2005 04:35 am |
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Johnny wrote: Roy wrote: How many years do I have to hear excuses from and apologies for the progressive wing of humanity while they stubbornly look the other way about their own failure to live up to their self-professed ideals?
The far left just sucks and isn't progressive at all but wants a hell that they themselves are the head devils thereof.
"Newsweek" has written many, many bad articles.
I will tell you how I know.
When I lived in Italy, I taught English to a lot of "important" people who one would have to consider to be "well-connected" people. So, I was in a position to judge how well a story in Newsweek or Time had been done that concerned Italy and Europe.
Let me cut to the cutting room floor. They stink. They f-ing, f-ing, f-ing just plain f-ing stink.
So, when I hear about this false reporting from Newsweek, I am not surprised.
The journalist does not want accountability. That would mean letting red-neck working class people who can't even spell decide that journalists, the high priests of the Media World, were wrong.
Classism, snobbery, leftist anima-possession, elitism, and general arrogance might be a good description of the qualities we should see in journalists.
You don't think that Goldberg who wrote Arrogance and Bias, a real old-school Kennedy Democrat, anti-communist and pro-civil rights guy, chose those titles to describe the f-ing establishment media did that just to create controversy?
Roy
PS I once drove a young woman, a Stanford graduate, who was a journalist for Time magazine, to the airport.
In that brief trip I got confirmation on all my "prejudices" about the world of journalists.
And she was a lousy tipper as well, even after I had provided her with great lead to do a story on anabolic steroids.
Oh. She thought it was awful that the Army had planned to use the NFL footballer who volunteered to go to Afghanistan for publicity.
Pure animus-possession. Fear of masculinity. Judgments without facts and real reasoning processing with the arrogance of self-qualification.
O.K. since you and PG are burning for a Far-Left Poster Boy you've got your wish.
I can accomodate.
If there wasn't a Far Left for you to whine about, to absorb all your embarrassing experiences trying to interact with people who blew you off, then who would be next.
Tell me Roy who's next on your hit list for hatred and vilification. Somebody's gotta burn for all the malfunctions and it's not going to be the Far Left my friend. The Far Left took off in that airplane to write a news article in Time before you could reset your meter and pick up the next important person who had to be somewhere important.
If you guys think tearing down Newsweek and hanging all its editors is going to keep radical, provincially minded Muslims from going apeshit and killing people when a copy of the Quran gets a little dust on it then I'm very happy you're not in control of this country.
You don't see Prez Bush obsessing over this issue. He's got more important problems like keeping the Red Cross from revealing additional abuses by our military personnel towards the detainees we're holding in Cuba.
Thanks to the Far Left now you know how we are seen by the people who were born and make their lives in a few of the countries we occupy. I guess it's easier to hate the Far Left than confront the real problem...
Jesus Christ and I don't support the right to abortion and agree with the death penalty!
Oh lord, did I sound like that . . . 
____________________
"In a person (not Corvus) who is open to experience each stimulus is freely relayed through the nervous system, without being distorted by any process of defensiveness." -C. Rogers
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Psycho Gizmo
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Posted: Tue May 24th, 2005 05:59 am |
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Roy wrote: Actually, just to reply to one point you have made there, Gizmoniffic: I happen to agree with the assessment of the French to ban the head scarves.
I read about what was going on in their schools and how the head scarves are used by the Muslims to help segregate rather tnan integrete their children.
I can't remember the specifics, but after I read the articlle I happened to agree with the French.
Well, there is an argument to be made for banning head scarves, but I disagree that
it is an overriding one. The net effect of banning them will surely have a unifying effect on Islam, so if their intent was to diffuse this, the banning of a harmless article of clothing did nothing to alleviate it. It may have given the propaganda corps ammunition to use by provide a good focus for outrage.
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Psycho Gizmo
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Posted: Tue May 24th, 2005 09:49 am |
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And I invite Johnny and anyone else who still believes that salvation for modern American society lies on the far-left side of the political spectrum, to read the attached article by a journalist (a flaw we will overlook) who decided to leave liberalism for individualism. If you are sick and tired of listening to PG's general spiel, this fellow is a professional writer who puts into words what many of us have felt over the years about the betrayal of the left of it's core values and ideals for a sort of brutal, inherently undignified Machiavellian desperation-strategy.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/05/22/INGUNCQHKJ1.DTL
This article is especially poignant since Howard "The Angry Duck" Dean mentioned yesterday that the ideal Democrat to him is a Vermont representative named Bernie Sanders. Except that Bernie isn't really a Democrat at all. He is a self-described socialist.
http://bernie.house.gov/biography/index.asp
In case anyone doesn't know what a socialist is, they believe in the philosophies of Karl Marx and favor a tax rate that is at or near 100%. They feel that only the government should get to distribute the wealth of the land, not the forces of free enterprise or a market economy. He feels better about Communism taking over the U.S. than belief in theistic spirituality staying put.
This is Dean's "Ideal Democrat". A self-described Marxist who prefers socialism to capitalism.
PG
Last edited on Tue May 24th, 2005 09:53 am by
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Johnny
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Posted: Tue May 24th, 2005 03:03 pm |
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Psycho Gizmo wrote: The net effect of banning [scarves] will surely have a unifying effect on Islam, so if their intent was to diffuse this, the banning of a harmless article of clothing did nothing to alleviate it. It may have given the propaganda corps ammunition to use by provide a good focus for outrage.
It works both ways...this ban is exploited to show France's discrimination towards Islam in their country, and it's exploited to vilify Muslims who would use this headdress to discriminate non-Muslims.
I agree PG I think France is making a mistake by banning scarves. I think instead France should invest this energy in establishing dialogue and building bridges towards Muslim leaders in these communities.
The best tracks we can make towards peace and goodwill between Christians and Muslims is to let go of our fear of Islam and realize the deep historical and spiritual connection we, as Christians, have with Muslims.
Most importantly we should allow all the children of different faiths and backgrounds to play with one another often without interference and imposition of our fears and prejudices as adults...and be patient.
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Johnny
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Posted: Tue May 24th, 2005 03:16 pm |
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Psycho Gizmo wrote: ...Johnny...still believes that salvation for modern American society lies on the far-left side of the political spectrum...
And it does lie there, PG.
The right can only conceive of an overcrowded life raft in the middle of a shark infested ocean, where any sudden move or shift will rock the boat and improve the chances of it tipping over. "Everyone will die!" is the beat of the war drum, and it is the only thing that matters lest someone get distracted and decide that getting off that fucking raft and swimming to shore is the better option.
Then all hell will break loose and the fantasy world of the right will shatter, all control over the masses will be lost and there will be chaos in the streets and riots and generally bad things with no justice to balance the scales.
The left however is willing to entertain a more open minded view of life...one where God can be worshipped and a genuine surrender to His power can be experienced...where chances can be taken and "out of the box" thinking can be entertained.
I prefer the wacky, out of balance left perspective and wider view. I don't care so much for the right and it's obsession over defining and measuring and manipulating and controlling everything in its field of vision.
Really it's because I'm naturally obsessed over controlling and manipulating and measuring and defining the world and my experiences...and so publicly adopting as many of the left's political views as I can stomach allows me to balance my vision with a vision for which I have no control...and with that acknowledge that I'm not entirely in control of my own life...to make room for forgiveness and redemption for myself and others.
So there you have it in all its naked honesty, PG.
Last edited on Tue May 24th, 2005 03:18 pm by
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Psycho Gizmo
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Posted: Tue May 24th, 2005 04:36 pm |
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Mr. Johnny, honesty I can gladly and easily accept.
It is noted that Johnny has some strong opinions and he is certainly entitled to hold, them even if they are apparently based largely upon "intuition and emotional criteria" not strong rational arguments.
That one admits that beliefs about politics are derived from "feelings" and not from any specific issue-based objections (other than those rooted in a priori preconceptions) is only to admit that one's "feelings and intuitions" are the primary decision-making areas of one's political psyche.
I deeply respect the fact that Johnny is the first left-supporting debater that PG has ever encountered (other than
Corvus, who is more a heckler crow than political man, God bless him) who admits that the arguments that support their position are largely internal and non-rational (emotionally derived).
NOTE: It should be noted that the term "non-rational" is not exactly the same thing as "irrational". Choosing strawberry over chocolate ice-cream (a wise choice) is an example of a non-rational decision that is equally (or more) valid to a logical one.
I note that in the above post, the strongest statements were those that were least substantiated by rational argument.
For example:
Johnny wrote;The right can only conceive of an overcrowded life raft in the middle of a shark infested ocean, If so, a rational argument to support that view has not been offered here. Strong assertions, but based upon what? What logic can be conveyed to others in a meaningful way to substantiate the assertion? Or;
Johnny wrote;
Then all Hell will break loose and the fantasy world of the right will shatter, all control over the masses will be lost and there will be chaos in the streets and riots and generally bad things with no justice to balance the scales.
Again, a strong assertion without a compelling factual argument to support it. Obviously you feel that way strongly, but why? And exactly how are all of those terrible things that we are supposed to be scared of happening, to be caused by non-liberals ?
Or Johnny wrote;The left however is willing to entertain a more open minded view of life...one where God can be worshipped and a genuine surrender to His power can be experienced...where chances can be taken and "out of the box" thinking can be entertained.
Such pretty words. And yet, with all due respect friend Johnny, not a single fact or number or specific logical component to back up the claim?
I think your post has inadvertantly hit the nail on the head by using the term "entertained". The left has taken to considering politics and governance as some type of entertaining intellectual game, where power is obtained by detached, yea, bemused manipulation, not earned by legitimate means of obtaining a concensus. Perhaps that is because inherently corrupt, cynical, desperate people perceive the world to be inherently cynical, desperate and corrupt?
What seems doubly odd to me to be frank, is Johnny's expression of a sense of obligation to the liberal left as a sort of idealogical "safe haven" for "people like him". They will surely scorn and dispose of people like you as soon as you have served your purpose to their political cause. Those far-leftist folks mostly look upon theists as amusing, moronic pets, or credulous yokels at best. Or at worst, theists are seen by the far left as dangerous and unstable - never to be trusted very much (after all, they believe in a ridiculous non-existent God). Ask the religious people who assisted in the Communist Russian Revolution what their reward was for creating Stalin.
If I make strong assertions, at some point in the dialogue I try to back them up with an equally strong factual argument.
The essence of the point of this thread was partly to demonstrate how the far (or reactive)-left requires supporters who rely upon non-rational thinking, with intellect in a subservient role. Yet the far-left arrogantly lays claim to being the "more intellectual" party. Maybe they used to be. Now they are the party of naked emotion and non-rational arguments dressed up as "innovative, creative thinking".
Just because a statement is vague, abstruse, and confusing doesn't mean it is smart. Any shrewd businessman knows that instinctively.That is why the left prefers alliances with huge corporations to small businessmen like me (the heart of the U.S.economy). Corporations are administrated like the SS, by highly-centralized, puissant, autocratic, heirachical, monolithic management, not free-thinking individuals. Corporate drones do and believe as they're told or get pressure from above. Small businessmen don't and cannot be easily buffaloed.
Again, kudos to Johnny for having the honesty to admit that his stronger opinions are derived from an inner need to "balance the scales" of his own psyche.
It disturbs me however, to recognise that you really consider people who would just as soon see you dead (after they have extracted what they need from you to seize control of your money) as help you realise your dreams of spiritual expression, to be your allies in life and politics. It seems to me that these days, the left has nothing but abject contempt for the values of people like you and me.
But I hope you get used to the fleas! That biting and itching will stop as soon as one stops hanging out with them and supporting their odd, ineffectual ideas and aversive knee-jerk emotional reactiveness to traditionalism of any kind.
Let me remind Johnny that the term "innovative" was at one time in the formation of our nation, a synonym for "irresponsible and impractical". The term "innovative" was used derisively by the Founding Fathers in the debates that arose in the Constitutional Congress. It seems that we have come full circle since the 1780's.
Check out the non-fiction, non-political, book titled,
"Miracle At Philadelphia : The Story of the Constitutional Convention May - September 1787" by historian Catherine Drinker-Bowen.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316103985/qid=1116954480/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/002-7724048-1925613?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Then you may judge for yourself which faction of contemporary political thought best reflects the spirit of the Constitution and the men who forged it.
PG
Last edited on Tue May 24th, 2005 05:58 pm by
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