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Corvus
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Posted: Thu Apr 7th, 2005 05:10 am |
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/diet.fitness/04/06/overweight.california.ap/index.html
I say tax those food companies that cater to the lard asses in society . . . and tax food that is "unhealty"
Set tax deductions for those that stay under a certain weight . . .
Damn it, if we are going to be a capitalistic society lets really live by the dollar.
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"In a person (not Corvus) who is open to experience each stimulus is freely relayed through the nervous system, without being distorted by any process of defensiveness." -C. Rogers
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Roy
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Posted: Thu Apr 7th, 2005 06:05 am |
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Now, C-Man, are you exploring what you take to be the dark side of yourself here? There is a parallelism to the other post about steroids.
Individuals cannot fairly ask the state to do for them what they cannot do for themselves: take responsibility for keeping themselves in good health.
Incapacity to really foresee profits is one of the chief flaws of the present mindset of capitalism: selling fattening food makes for more profit now even as it cuts into profits by raising health costs raising insurance premiums and taxes to pay the increased medical bills.
Since capitalists are not just capitalists but also members of the greater society, interested in truly rational interrelationships between the members thereof, eventually one would suppose that this would change. (Hah!)
But Social Security and Medicair will go bankrupt first.
We are being assailed on all sides at once. Utopias? We will be lucky to have a society that is just that- a society- and not something out of the some Road Warrior film or "The Postman".
It ain't just Grandma that will be put out on the ice.
RoyLast edited on Thu Apr 7th, 2005 04:53 pm by Roy
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"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
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Helgi
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Posted: Thu Apr 7th, 2005 06:06 am |
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| I couldn't agree more. Those argr politicians just sit around in their think tank like fish in an aquarium when they could put all those crazy tax cut plans to good use threw tax incentives to promote things like spirituality and family (or as Corvus pointed out, getting their ass in shape).
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"We have a lady who is most high and mighty, high she is and holy, nobles love her for this. She is called Freo, well does she direct them, Freo, our lady, we give to her Friday." -From the poem 'Brut', by the 13C poet Layamon
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Corvus
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Posted: Thu Apr 7th, 2005 06:14 am |
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Roy,
In all honesty, I am just trying to get the train a rolling . . . I don't know what I think about Americans being overweight . . . as I am one of them.
All I do know . . . is someone is making a hefty buck while tempting my taste buds and I think they should be held just as responsible as me . . .
I really see our freedoms diminishing . . . based on the $. 
And can we really force a society that in my eyes is so foolishly apathetic, to take responsibility.
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"In a person (not Corvus) who is open to experience each stimulus is freely relayed through the nervous system, without being distorted by any process of defensiveness." -C. Rogers
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Roy
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Posted: Thu Apr 7th, 2005 06:19 am |
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Well, I plan to develop a lot of webpages dedicated to health and diet to be part of this forum. There will be a part divided to health, exercise and nutrition and longevity.
We will cover every major aspect of the person.
Tomorrow first thing, let's talk about it:diet and nutrition.
Roy
____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
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Nocturne
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Posted: Thu Apr 7th, 2005 04:29 pm |
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And can we really force a society that in my eyes is so foolishly apathetic, to take responsibility.
Look, some times people do need to be told what to do. Sometimes corporations need be 'told what to do' by hefty taxes. Think about, we have laws, you just can't go out and shoot someone because they annoy you, you get locked up. You are bound by your social conventions and laws. We make certain drugs illegal, we are told we can't take other peoples property, empty other peoples bank accounts and put them in our own. We are told all these things and accept them. Why the shock at telling people NO, you can't eat that, it's bad for you. We don't let kids smoke, it's bad for them. Who decided that when you are 18 you are no longer a child, it's a social construct, I think a french man called Aries made comment on it.
most of the time, apart from the few good people here and in the real world, people are mean and ...'stupid', they don't know any better. Corporations are of a similar mind set, they can be greedy they need laws to bind them. Corvus has a point.
I think I might have fascist(if that form of government can be benevolent) tendencies, is this what happens when you near 40?
A paternalistic society, where Daddy knows best?
Who's the Daddy?
P.s I am going off democracy
For most of its history, democracy was seen as a degenerate political form, much feared for its reliance on a populace seen as foolish and volatile. Yet since the adoption and justification of representation in the Eighteenth Century, we have laid to rest those dangerous images of noisy and volatile mobs, constant mass assemblies and endless inefficient talk. With the peple being ruled by proxy, and periodically consenting in elections, we have found a way to combine legitimacy with decency and viability. Now, in its modern representative form, what's so clever about democracy is that it provides enough participatory input to be legitimate, yet not so much as to damage its viability. As such, it's easy to see why the democratic club is one that everyone wants to join . http://www.tangentium.org/nov03/essay2.html
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when will all this end?
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Roy
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Posted: Thu Apr 7th, 2005 04:41 pm |
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The corporations, the government, and most of all the people need what Wilber calls an "integral vision" of how all aspects of the problem go together.
First of all, the fast food giants need to adopt something more like the "Subway" sandwich places where you can get a great sandwich of whole wheat, and enough lean meat and veggies on it to be only 5 or 6 grams of fat.
I eat on the run by getting the cheap burritos from 7/11 which have only 25% or less of calories from fat and throw in a quart of non-fat milk for a satisfying low-fat meal.
Why haven't McDonald's and the others figured this out? It is not just about money, though undoubtedly money enters into it.
It is about mindset.
Roy
____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
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Roy
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Posted: Thu Apr 7th, 2005 04:45 pm |
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Oh, Nocturne, I would add that what disturbed you about democracy now was that you saw how the "democratic" society could be manipulated by those in power using the weaknesses of the demos, the people.
My interpretation of the "Spirit in History" as it were is that the age of authoritarianism is dying and that people want to be free and all these souls need to get a grasp of what being free and thinking for yourself really means.
There have to be tragedies to wake people up. I have had mine.
Roy
____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
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Nocturne
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Posted: Thu Apr 7th, 2005 07:12 pm |
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First of all, the fast food giants need to adopt something more like the "Subway" sandwich places where you can get a great sandwich of whole wheat, and enough lean meat and veggies on it to be only 5 or 6 grams of fat.
Makes sense, feels right. How do we 'make them' do it, how do we alter the mindset. There is nothing wrong with making money with this type of service!!!!
Oh, Nocturne, I would add that what disturbed you about democracy was that you saw how the "democratic" society could be manipulated by those in power using the weaknesses of the demos, the people.
Sigh... yes. You're making sense, it's so darn depressing though. How do I get rid of my 'disturbence', how do I get my faith back in the democratic society? The demos, weak? Yes, I feel it too, we need some sort of fundamental electric shock to the system.  Although, if the right person came along, brains and compassion, with a promise that they could provide a bloodline to rule us in the right way, I honestly would not rule out a 'return of the king'
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Helgi
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Posted: Thu Apr 7th, 2005 08:05 pm |
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Nocturne wrote:
Sigh... yes. You're making sense, it's so darn depressing though. How do I get rid of my 'disturbence', how do I get my faith back in the democratic society? The demos, weak? Yes, I feel it too, we need some sort of fundamental electric shock to the system. Although, if the right person came along, brains and compassion, with a promise that they could provide a bloodline to rule us in the right way, I honestly would not rule out a 'return of the king'
I couldn't agree more! I will be offering up some literary discussion about such things when things get crackin.
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"We have a lady who is most high and mighty, high she is and holy, nobles love her for this. She is called Freo, well does she direct them, Freo, our lady, we give to her Friday." -From the poem 'Brut', by the 13C poet Layamon
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Psycho Gizmo
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Posted: Fri Apr 8th, 2005 02:01 am |
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A culture that is dedicated to teaching people to obey their appetites, rather than to the natural inner hunger signal is a major problem. Years ago, I underwent a complete revision of my eating habits. It started with fasting in order to cleanse the system of toxins built up over years of unhealthy eating and habits of ingestion. Also, fasting teaches one to transcend the appetite mechanism, which can be reprogrammed to prefer healthy, flavorful foods.
The yogic view of food is that it should be viewed as fuel, nothing more and nothing less. Fasting teaches, through the euphoria of meditation and breath-control, that takingin large amounts of unhealthy food is not necessary to feel good.
Until a person obliterates their addiction to tasty unhealthy food, and regards it as fuel to give one's body energy for creativity, gainful employ, play or making love, onewil be trapped by their nature. When one is a sensualist, one will look too much to brief lightening bolts of pleasure (like pudding, Twinkies and fudge) for salvation from boredom or feelings of spiritual emptiness.
Simply by returning to the natural rhythms of the human system and a decetn diet of nutritious calories, one can learn to enjoy literally any food you like. The horrendous cravings go away when one removes sugar, salt, vinegar, and pepper from one's food.
It is remarkable how processed foods hide taste. After I did a long cleansing fast in the first years of my efforts, Ihad a meal without seasonings, with only a glass of wine to enhance the natural flavours. I did not miss the salt,vinegar or sugar at all. Foods that I had thought boring and repulsive were like new to my taste! The whole spectrum and overtones of fresh food finally became obvious.
The idea of overly seasoning excellent food is now a joke to me. I think of it as putting sun-glasses on the Mona Lisa. Great food should not be overly spiced. That was a habit originally started by primitives to mask the flavor of either semi-spoiled or preserved, stale food - which we do not have to worry about much these days.
Check it out. But remember fasting should be done with deliberate planning and gentle execution guided by one's own feelings and instincts.
Salivating for Savory Simmering Sauces and Succulent Servings of Something Sublime and Sumptuous (Such and a Salad)! - Psycho
Attachment: pyramid-main.gif (Downloaded 47 times) Last edited on Fri Apr 8th, 2005 02:05 am by
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Corvus
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Posted: Fri Apr 8th, 2005 05:51 am |
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How does a person such as myself . . . with horrible stress induced acid reflux (and non- stress hereditary acid)and several pre-ulcers . . . fast . . . ?
I have tried it and can literally feel holes being made . . . I was drinking water up the yinyang . . .
And starches are proven precursors for diabetes and pancreas failure . . .
That food pyramid is okay for some, horrible for others . . .
Unless you are getting constant exercise . . . complex sugars, starches are not that great.
I am allergic to all seafood, flaxseed oil . . . and other things not yet found . . . these allergies developed after trying that "South Beach" diet.
I hate to be so self defeating . . . but everything is always a bitch for me.
I have been doing so research on foods that have a high alkali content . . . to balance my seemingly acidic body . . . Roy do you have any thoughts on this ?
Last edited on Fri Apr 8th, 2005 06:41 am by Corvus
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"In a person (not Corvus) who is open to experience each stimulus is freely relayed through the nervous system, without being distorted by any process of defensiveness." -C. Rogers
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Roy
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Posted: Fri Apr 8th, 2005 07:03 am |
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Tomorrow morning I will write something more, but sounds as if your acid reflux would be caused by a lack of a cardiac sphincter to keep the esphogus closed enough to prevent the reflux.
You shouldn't fast if it causes you a problem.
If you have an ulcer, now doctors know that the ulcer is caused by H.Pyloris, a bacteria treatable by antibiotics.
You should try them.
You should also try digestive enzymes with your meal. Eat smaller meals and stop worrying about carbohydrate.
The longest living people in the world live on Okinawa. They eat less rice than the Japanese and more fish.
They eat something like the Zone Diet: more protein than the Pritikin and more Essential Fatty Acids, less starch and more veggies.
How exactly do you know you are allergic to fish oils and the rest (before I proceed)?
RoyLast edited on Fri Apr 8th, 2005 07:03 am by Roy
____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
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Corvus
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Posted: Fri Apr 8th, 2005 07:17 am |
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I have been tested for the H-bacteria . . . Negative . . . even so, I still eat broccoli which supposedly kills it . . .
The actual "reflux" just started in the last 2 years . . . prior to that it was pre-ulcers.
I don't think I could remove starches from my diet if I tried, I was just commenting on the Food Chart . . .
My allergist tested me for antibodies, RAST test . . . he gave me list, I picked just 3 things . . . FLAX-Oil, Cod, Salmon . . . and came back level 3 for all three . . . he suggested I avoid all seafood.
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"In a person (not Corvus) who is open to experience each stimulus is freely relayed through the nervous system, without being distorted by any process of defensiveness." -C. Rogers
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Nocturne
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Posted: Fri Apr 8th, 2005 08:56 pm |
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Let me get this straight, it's an offence for the electorate to sell their votes, but not an offence for politicians to try to buy them?
You tell me Democracy & Capitalism, are they really meant to work in the same socio-economic system.
I dont think Lenin was that far off the point when he said "As long as capitalism and socialism exist side by side, we cannot live in peace. Eventually one of them will be victorious. A funeral anthem will be sung either for the Soviet Union or world capitalism." For Soviet Union read democracy! 
Madison, one of your founding fathers (I think) said "... democracy is the most vile form of government... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths"
Thank you.
Last edited on Fri Apr 8th, 2005 08:57 pm by Nocturne
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Corvus
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Posted: Fri Apr 8th, 2005 09:40 pm |
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Not sure where that came from, Nocturne . . . 
When I wake up in the morning and I realize how good I have it . . . sometimes I feel like that's the problem with America . . . we all have, that "good" . . .
Last edited on Fri Apr 8th, 2005 09:42 pm by Corvus
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Psycho Gizmo
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Posted: Sat Apr 9th, 2005 01:50 am |
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Corvus, ARE YOU LISTENING TO ME? CAN YOU HEAR THE WORDS THAT ARE COMIN" OUT OF MY MOUTH?
One reason that people have allergies is that their system is overloaded with toxins from years of build-up.Toxins come from ingesting more material than your poor body can easily process, and so the toxins back up. Histamines, aldehydes, acetone, uric acid, alcohol (from undigested carbohydrates), dioxins, excessive sodium, phosophorus depletion, b-vitamin deficeincy - all side effects of toxic build-up in the blood and organs.
It is not a wonder that you are ill, it is wonder that you are still living.The purpose of fasting, if done genlty with fruit juice to keep up lean body mass and blood sugar, is to give the organs of filtration a FUCKING BREAK!
True, you must be cautious not to create more problems than yoy solve, but if you tell a physician that you want to safely fast, he will tell you what you need to know to help you do it.
And you can do it. I do not like hearing the words, "I can't" from you. What are the last four letters of American?
It will purge your body and soul to simply give up all protein, starch, processed sugar, alcohol and fat for twenty four hours, to start. Then you will do it for forty-eight. And you will feel great after the first eight hours passes.
And RC is correct about digestive enzymes. They will turn the undigested material that is presently rotting within your gut, that must be washed away by the kidneys and liver, into nutrients and harmless by-products.
Taking calcium (at least 2000 mg. daily with plenty of fresh H2O) will do much to bring your system into a less acidic state of blood chemistry. You may belch and fart a little more due to the creation of carbon dioxide (a by-product of acid neutralization by calcium carbonate). So you know that you should leave the room and go out into the hall if you have to fart, right? And belching must be second nature to a refined gentleman like yourself, by all appearances.
I have a book by two medical scientists titled, "The Calcium Factor" by Robert Barefoot and Carl Reich M.D., that I will send to you to read, if you'd like to know more about the benefits of de-acidifying the system with calcium.
Meanwhile consider this information. Illness is an abscence of health. If you are doing enough not to interfere with your natural health and happiness, you will be able to eat whatever you like, whever you like, because you will no longer be a slave to appetite and gluttony. You will have become the Master of your cravings, and your vitality will rebound.
You'll have to have them all without having your savoy truffle! - John Lennon
Both I Psycho Gizmo, and your friend Roy will help you to accomplish it.
PG
Last edited on Sat Apr 9th, 2005 02:00 am by
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Nocturne
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Posted: Sat Apr 9th, 2005 09:27 am |
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Corvus wrote: Not sure where that came from, Nocturne . . .
When I wake up in the morning and I realize how good I have it . . . sometimes I feel like that's the problem with America . . . we all have, that "good" . . .
I thought I posted that somewhere else!!! I can be a bit lazy with my forum etiquette sometimes.
What's wrong with feeling good?
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Psycho Gizmo
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Posted: Sat Apr 9th, 2005 06:23 pm |
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Corvus, PG is just kidding, always. I'm a kidder. Did you ever see the feature film "Rush Hour" with Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker? Sorry if I offended you, avian. I forget that avians are shy creatures.
BTW the calcium book is great. It's yours for the asking! Good Corvus, bad Psycho...I thrash around like a land-shark in my feral state...please forgive my rodent stench. Sometimes I revert to anscestoral behavioral engrams.
Whew. I needed to catch myself there. Alarming gentleman Corvus ? Like terrorizing a crow - shameful, and boorish. Severian just read what I wrote, called me an idiot and left the room in disgust. No sex tonight.
I meant only humor, no offense. (bap!-that was a shoe hitting my head).
PG
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Johnny
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Posted: Sun Apr 10th, 2005 01:57 am |
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Psycho Gizmo wrote: ...PG is just kidding, always....
Well, I'm pasting your current avatar because it makes me laugh and I want to be able to leverage it whem commanded by the muse:
Thanks, PG!
Johnny
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