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Roy
Quasi-Infallible Egocentric Tyrant
| Joined: | Mon Apr 4th, 2005 |
| Location: | Washington USA |
| Posts: | 4326 |
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Posted: Mon Apr 25th, 2005 04:59 pm |
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(N.B.Roy reassumes his didactic posture with this thread. Feel free to be annoyed at his persona.)
Gotta, gotta, gotta know about this man. I will summarize his teachings as much as possible.
We are not self-conscious. We are not in possession of our souls. We are not in possession of objective reason, nor are we graced by objective moralityso we lack conscience. We are not immortal as declared by Christianity. We function mechanically and we don't have free will.
We are not even one "I", but a myriad number of "I"s each one making himself capo di tutti capi for a moment.
We can have all these things but only through a certain amount of work. They are not natural, but more like the fire those of you most like Prometheus would steal from the gods.
Let's start with self-consciousness. We are all taught that it is a distinguishing feature of our humanity.
Experiments have demonstrated well that primates have self-consciousness to a degree as they are capable of reacting to their image in a mirror and see if there is lipstick or whatever the experimenter has put on them as they begin to groom themselves to remove it.
However if you observe yourself, you will see that you are usually not in a state of self-consciousness.
Right there, that statement is a quandary.
How many of you were impressed by and remember well the scene in Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life" with "A Very Big Corporation of America" where they discuss the idea that "the soul does not come into existence" by itself but "has to be brought into existence by a sustained effort of attention"?
They make the point that sustaining that attention is difficult, and then after considering that point and a point about hats, they go back to talking about hats.
Roy
PS So, indulge me, Crew, and ask me somethin' about hats, I mean the soul and Gurdjieff.
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"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
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Corvus
Honored Fellow Grover
| Joined: | Tue Apr 5th, 2005 |
| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 913 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 26th, 2005 08:53 am |
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You're always living in the past . . . to be conscious of the now, the self, in the very moment of living . . . must always reflect . . . never allowing the future to be created from something new . . . because the mirror is forever aimed at the now, which is the past.
This way, seems to free the self from contradiction, but at what cost . . . stagnation?
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"In a person (not Corvus) who is open to experience each stimulus is freely relayed through the nervous system, without being distorted by any process of defensiveness." -C. Rogers
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Roy
Quasi-Infallible Egocentric Tyrant
| Joined: | Mon Apr 4th, 2005 |
| Location: | Washington USA |
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Posted: Wed Apr 27th, 2005 07:18 am |
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No, self-remembering intensifies the present which allows you to transcend the history you live unconsciously.
Quite the opposite.
Roy
PS You might like Bennett's book on his experience with Gurdjieff. You will get the training more.
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/
BookDetailsPL?bi=351940302
John G. Bennett
1897–1974
John G. Bennett was a British scientist, mathematician, and philosopher who integrated scientific research with studies of Asiatic languages and religions.
Born on June 8, 1897, Bennett travelled widely and worked with many spiritual leaders.
While in Constantinople in 1921—during the aftermath of the Great War and the Russian Revolution—he met both G. I. Gurdjieff and P. D. Ouspensky.
These meetings shaped the direction of his spiritual development and in the summer of 1923, he spent three months at Gurdjieff's Institute for the Harmonious Development of Man in France.
In spite of the shortness of his stay, Bennett was shown things that convinced him that man is capable of spiritual transformation and that Gurdjieff had profound knowledge and understanding of the techniques by which this could be achieved.
Soon thereafter, Bennett returned to England and worked with Ouspensky's groups for the next fifteen years. Then, in the summer of 1949, he spent a month working very intensively with Gurdjieff in Paris, and this experience laid the foundation for a significant transformation in his life. J. G. Bennett died on December 13, 1974, leaving a legacy of selfless giving and unrelenting inquiry into the mystery and meaning of existence. Last edited on Wed Apr 27th, 2005 07:22 am by Roy
____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
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