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The Grove > The Grove > National Sovereignty: Essential Aspect of Freedom > Follow-up to "The Truth About the Health Care Bills"


Follow-up to "The Truth About the Health Care Bills"
 Moderated by: Roy  

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deRodes
Honored Fellow Grover


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Mana: 
 Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 06:23 pm

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MORE ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE BILLS


How many times have we watched a movie about World War II and looked at the scene where a menacing Nazi soldier has stopped a citizen of an occupied country or even a German citizen and demanded to see the person’s “identity papers.” Failure to produce such papers would cause the person to be immediately arrested. I always felt good when I watched this because I knew that in my free country that couldn’t happen.

Yes, we have our driver’s license that you have to produce if you are stopped for a driving infraction and you may have to produce to write a check. However, if you choose not to drive you are not required to have one and you can get another form of identification to do something like cash a check. Yet, the fact is that you are not legally required to have either of these documents and if you do have them they can only contain a limited amount of information.


When I was practicing law I dealt with a situation where in the State of Louisiana you were required to provide your Social Security number to get a Driver’s License and it was also put on the license for everyone to see. I represented a client who had both privacy objections to this and religious objections. We won the case on the grounds that this requirement violated his constitutional rights. What made this particularly interesting was the fact that in support of our position I cited an opinion by a Court of Appeal Justice named Ruth Bader Ginsburg who is now one of the more liberal members of the Supreme Court.


Now, HB 3200 will mandate that everyone in the United States have a National Healthcare card that they will be required to produce to get medical treatment. This will be required whether they have private health insurance or are involved in the so-called public option. There are no real options, you must have this card and it can contain any information that the Obama administration requires. It will be the “identity papers” that so many totalitarian regimes are infamous for.


Of course, you may be thinking that this will no longer be a problem if the “public option” is removed from the bill. This has been a trial balloon floated by the Obama administration yet it really means nothing if the rest of the bill is adopted. The Congress will still be transferring unlimited power to the Executive Branch of Government and the Commissioner appointed by President Obama can still require a National Health Care identification card, still have access to your financial and medical records, and still fine you for having a plan unacceptable to the government. This will result in the ultimate destruction of private health insurance and the adoption of a public system of rationed health care totally controlled by the government.


I found it interesting that a week after I wrote my first blog questioning the constitutionality of House Bill 3200 Judge Andrew Napolitano on Fox News interviewed two Constitutional experts who also saw this as an unconstitutional action by the Congress. They pointed out that normally when this type of legislation is introduced in Congress the members of the House of Representatives or the Senate cite the provisions of the U.S. Constitution that authorize such legislation.

This has not been the case in any of the Health Care Bills proposed. This is not a simple oversight on the part of the Congress. They know they don’t have Constitutional authority to do this, but they simply don’t care. They intend to do it anyway. I find this to be both supremely arrogant, and absolutely terrifying. If they succeed in this, then no provisions of the Constitution are safe from attack.


In fact, in future articles I will point out where other provisions of our Constitution that I consider sacred are being totally disregarded and under full scale assault by the Congress and the Obama administration. I repeat what I said in my previous article; this is not about health care. It is about our fundamental rights as free citizens of the United States.


Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law Instructor
Carrollton, Texas
mrobertc@hotmail.com



____________________
Politicians and diapers should be changed often - for the same reason!
_________________

Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruit. Proverbs 18:21
Roy
Quasi-Infallible Egocentric Tyrant


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Mana: 
 Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 02:45 am

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How could liberal Ginsberg change her mind on this if the attorney brought suit on the issue of privacy?

This is the part where we really see lib madness. Add this to the drop-off of their protests against the war, no more pix of coffins coming back, and the detention of GITMO POWs now that Obama has no way to get rid of them.

Oh, and we have to add it to the defense of Roman Polanski on the rape charge.

Do they actually know what a universal principle is? What hypocrisy is?



____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
deRodes
Honored Fellow Grover


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Mana: 
 Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 10:28 pm

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I know we're talking about the fraudulent health care bills, but all of this is tied together.

"H1N1 is a fraud, the same as swine flu is a fraud... There is NO connection
to swine in flu!!" http://www.nowpublic.com/world/h1n1-swine-flu-hoax-fraud-conspiracy-theories

They have been preparing... note the date:

Governor Gregoire Signs Agreement to Prepare Washington for Pandemic Flu

excerpts:
TACOMA — Governor Chris Gregoire today signed an agreement with the United States Department of Health and Human Services to coordinate on state and federal efforts to prepare for an outbreak of pandemic flu.

“Safety and security in Washington is one of my top priorities,” said Governor Gregoire. “Preparing our communities for the possibility of a global flu pandemic is an immense and continuous responsibility and depends on all of us working together.”

The agreement outlines planning within Washington and how it will be coordinated with federal plans. It identifies state and federal responsibilities and calls on the state to conduct drills and exercises to find ways to strengthen and improve response to a public health emergency such as pandemic flu.

“Pandemics are global in nature but their effects are always local, so I am pleased that Governor Gregoire is taking a leadership role to prepare Washington for this threat,” Deputy Secretary Azar said. “Pandemic planning must address how schools, businesses, public agencies, faith-based organizations and others participate in pandemic preparedness. With this meeting, local officials can identify needs specific to Washington communities and begin crucial coordination to assure readiness if a pandemic outbreak strikes.”

Mercury limits suspended for H1N1 (swine flu) vaccine to improve access

excerpts:
Secretary of Health Mary Selecky is temporarily suspending Washingtons limit on the amount of mercury (thimerosal) allowed in H1N1 (swine flu) vaccine given to pregnant women and children under three.

The six-month suspension is effective through March 23, 2010 and applies only to H1N1 (swine flu) vaccines now being developed. As a precaution, Washington state law limits the amount of mercury that can be in vaccines for pregnant women and children under three. The secretary of health can suspend the law when theres a shortage of vaccine or during a disease outbreak both criteria apply to the H1N1 (swine flu)
vaccine. Supplies of mercury-free vaccine will be limited, which may stop people in these groups who want the vaccine from getting it.


"Bottom line... it is same old same old. Stay away from vaccines if you wish
to live health[y] and long! Stay away from insurance and donor cards if you
wish to save money or have a longer life expectancy! Studies have shown
this! The number one diagnosis in the hospital is "has insurance", and the
idea that all people need insurance is a myth of large proportions!"






____________________
Politicians and diapers should be changed often - for the same reason!
_________________

Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruit. Proverbs 18:21
deRodes
Honored Fellow Grover


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Mana: 
 Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 10:52 pm

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"Do they actually know what a universal principle is? What hypocrisy is?"

They know - they just don't care. Here's a classic example of hypocrisy:

Obama: U.S. Does Not Recognize 'Legitimacy of Continued Israeli Settlements'

In declaring that it is time for Middle East peace "without preconditions," President Obama used his speech to the U.N. General Assembly Wednesday to fire a warning at Israel that "America does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements."

Obama's stark declaration, which drew applause, was coupled with a call for Palestinians to end their "incitement of Israel."

But it was the use of the U.N. forum to carry the settlement message to Israel that drew the most enthusiastic response on the floor -- and incredulous reaction outside its walls.

Obama just put Israel "on the chopping block," said former U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton.

Obama said he met Tuesday with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who was not in attendance at the speech, and agreed that the two have made some progress in both strengthening security and facilitating freedom of movement, which have allowed the economy in the West Bank to grow.

But more progress is needed, he said.

"We continue to call on Palestinians to end incitement against Israel, and we continue to emphasize that America does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements," he said.

Obama said four issues separate the two sides: security, borders, refugees and Jerusalem, but the goal is clear: a secure, Jewish state for Israel and "a viable, independent Palestinian state with contiguous territory that ends the occupation that began in 1967."

He also said a new order is needed in dealing with the dispute.

"The United States does Israel no favors when we fail to couple an unwavering commitment to its security with an insistence that Israel respect the legitimate claims and rights of the Palestinians. And nations within this body do the Palestinians no favors when they choose vitriolic attacks over a constructive willingness to recognize Israel's legitimacy, and its right to exist in peace and security," he said.

In his first speech to the world body, Obama applied his campaign slogan to the international community and challenged the global community to step up and fix the world's problems both at home and abroad.

He said it is no longer plausible to be bad actors and then blame the United States.

"The people of the world want change," he said, noting that "just as no nation should be forced to accept the tyranny of another nation, no individual should be forced to accept the tyranny of their own government."

The world's problems are not "solely America's endeavor," Obama said, noting the threats from poverty, global warming, disease pandemics and overpopulation.

"Those who used to chastise America for acting alone in the world cannot now stand by and wait for America to solve the world's problems alone," Obama said. 

Obama said he's led by example by prohibiting torture of detainees and ordering the closure of the military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. He added that he is committed to removing all U.S. troops from Iraq by 2011 and is working to reach the goal of "a world without nuclear weapons."

He said the G-20 industrialized nations have spent $2 trillion to keep the world from the brink of an economic collapse, and the U.S. has demonstrated its commitment to the world body by paying its bills and joining the Human Rights Council.

"Nothing is easier than blaming others for our troubles and absolving ourselves of responsibility for our choices and our actions. Anyone can do that. Responsibility and leadership in the 21st century demands more. In an era when our destiny is shared, power is no longer a zero sum game. No one nation can or should try to dominate another nation. No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed. No balance of power among nations will hold," he said.

Speaking to the 64th opening session of the U.N. General Assembly, Obama laid out four pillars for the world community -- peace in the Mideast and elsewhere, a reduction in nuclear weapons, preservation of the environment and global economic opportunity. 

Obama said he wants a post-atomic age, and he will hold countries accountable for threatening the rest of the globe with nuclear weapons as the United States tries to reduce its arsenal.

Saying the United States will work with Russia to reduce its strategic warheads through an update of the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, Obama pledged to move to ratify the Test Ban Treaty, work with others so that "nuclear testing is permanently prohibited," begin negotiations in January on a treaty to end fissile material production and host a summit in April that reaffirms each nation's responsibility to secure nuclear material on its territory.

Obama said he was not going to single out any nation, but in the next sentence he called out North Korea and Iran as threats to world cooperation.

"Those nations that refuse to live up to their obligations must face consequences. This is not about singling out individual nations -- it is about standing up for the rights of all nations that do live up to their responsibilities," he said, adding "the governments of North Korea and Iran threaten to take us down this dangerous slope."

"I am committed to diplomacy that opens a path to greater prosperity and a more secure peace for both nations if they live up to their obligations. ... But if the governments of Iran and North Korea choose to ignore international standards ... then they must be held accountable."

As Obama spoke, Libyan leader Muammar al-Qaddafi, who followed Obama in delivering a speech from the dais, scribbled notes as he listened to the U.S. president through a translation ear piece. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad also sat in the chamber, his hands cusped together in his lap. He did not take notes. Neither applauded during the speech, though Qaddafi clapped when the president ended his remarks. Ahmadinejad did not.

In his 38-minute speech, Obama pressed the world to cooperate on carbon emissions reduction, saying the "wealthy nations that did so much to damage the environment in the 20th century must accept our obligation to lead" but "the fast-growing carbon emitters who can do more to reduce their air pollution without inhibiting growth."

Obama also pledged continued aid through the Global Fund to fight HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, malaria and polio, and by contributions of H1N1 vaccines to the World Health Organization.

He also talked about greater integration of economies through global trade and the Millennium Development Goals.

"Now is the time for all of us to do our part. Growth will not be sustained or shared unless all nations embrace their responsibility. Wealthy nations must open their markets to more goods and extend a hand to those with less, while reforming international institutions to give more nations a greater voice. Developing nations must root out the corruption that is an obstacle to progress ...  That's why we will support honest police and independent judges; civil society and a vibrant private sector," he said.

From February 2008:

Islam's Battle For The White House

by American Expat in Southeast Asia

excerpt:
An Obama victory in the US presidential elections will be disastrous for the war on terrorism and the mere prospects of that becoming a reality have already begun to raise red flags here in Southeast Asia. To say that Obama is popular among Muslims in Southeast Asia would be an understatement. Almost all Indonesians see Barack Hussein Obama as one of their brethren. His childhood in Indonesia, his Muslim heritage, his Muslim name, his black hair and brown eyes, his opposition to the War in Iraq and his sympathy towards the cause of Muslims around the world convinces Indonesians that Obama is one of their own. For Indonesians it is simple, if he walks like a Muslim and talks like a Muslim, then he is a Muslim.



____________________
Politicians and diapers should be changed often - for the same reason!
_________________

Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruit. Proverbs 18:21
*Phil*
Opinionated Interventionist


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Mana: 
 Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 01:08 am

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Roy wrote: How could liberal Ginsberg change her mind on this if the attorney brought suit on the issue of privacy?

This is the part where we really see lib madness. Add this to the drop-off of their protests against the war, no more pix of coffins coming back, and the detention of GITMO POWs now that Obama has no way to get rid of them.

Oh, and we have to add it to the defense of Roman Polanski on the rape charge.

Do they actually know what a universal principle is? What hypocrisy is?


Peak Libtard Post-Modernism.  For a healthy civilization and society it's worthless crap.

2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.



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deRodes
Honored Fellow Grover


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Mana: 
 Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 02:13 am

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Back up to 2 Timothy 3:1-5

But understand this, that in the last days, there will come times of stress, For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people.

While re-reading Ezekiel, it was revealed to me (I believe the Holy Spirit showed me) that Ezekiel was talking about Islam. And the more I learn about Islam the more I see the truth of God's word.



____________________
Politicians and diapers should be changed often - for the same reason!
_________________

Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruit. Proverbs 18:21
QueenB
Honored Fellow Grover
 

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Mana: 
 Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 02:47 am

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Great Stuff here thanks all. 

 My daughter said show me proof ...who has done the study about this flu stuff...so here is the link I need. 

Garden Queen

Roy
Quasi-Infallible Egocentric Tyrant


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Mana: 
 Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 03:45 am

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Great quote, Phil. Thanks.

And, that quote from you, deRodes, a furthering of it.

"Feeling function". Yes, soul gives us feeling function that is the path to conscience. All those observations of what evil men are like are based on that capacity to feel.

Feel. Not to be confused with "I don't feel like it" type of responses.

Differentiated feeling is like what am I and what do I feel like if I won't or don't do what I am legitimately obligated to do?

These traits discussed here: But understand this, that in the last days, there will come times of stress, For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people.

You make me want to take my Bible off the shelf and start reading it.

I don't get like that very often.





____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
deRodes
Honored Fellow Grover


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Mana: 
 Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 08:13 pm

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"You make me want to take my Bible off the shelf and start reading it."

Good idea, Roy!


I guess we're not supposed to know about this:

The international legal definition of the crime of genocide is found in Articles II and III of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide

Excerpt from the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide (For full text click here)

"Article II:  In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Kofi Annan's Stockholm Genocide Prevention Proposals, January 26, 2004 In Stockholm, Sweden on January 26, 2004 UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan calls for parties to the Genocide Convention to establish a Genocide Prevention Committee and a UN Special Rapporteur on Genocide Prevention.



____________________
Politicians and diapers should be changed often - for the same reason!
_________________

Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruit. Proverbs 18:21

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