When Killing People is not Murder - No Name For Now Forum - The Grove

Not logged in - Login | Register

The Grove > The Grove > No Name For Now Forum > When Killing People is not Murder

When Killing People is not Murder

Moderated by: Roy

Topic closed

New Topic

Author

Post

Classic Woman
Guest

Joined:
Location:
Posts:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 01:51 am

Have you noticed that I never debate or argue with PG about this topic? He does not agree with deportation, but I never find a reason to debate him.

Think about it. There is something different with him. He LEARNS quickly and applies it shrewdly. Obviously this debate is not about the Rx for Islam. The debate is that you attack your own country and own people while they are under attack by Islam. Shame on you. That is like attacking your own family while they are being burglarized.

Roy, you remind me of the guy who says that the girl would never have been raped had she not been wearing a miniskirt. You use the same logic. You are dead set on destroying Christianity, so you would do well discussing it with muslims.

Last edited on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 02:00 am by

Corvus
Honored Fellow Grover

Joined:	Tue Apr 5th, 2005
Location:	Wisconsin USA
Posts:	913
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 03:43 am

I feel as though I am at the Life Boat reading some hyper liberal bullshit, only the "shit" is upside down.

PG does not want to upset Mommy . . . and Mommy thinks her son can do no wrong.

Real interesting roles we lead . . .

Last edited on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 03:45 am by Corvus

____________________
"In a person (not Corvus) who is open to experience each stimulus is freely relayed through the nervous system, without being distorted by any process of defensiveness." -C. Rogers

Roy
Quasi-Infallible Egocentric Tyrant

Joined:	Mon Apr 4th, 2005
Location:	Washington USA
Posts:	4326
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 04:46 am

What the Lifeboat lefties have in common with CW here is desperation.

CW, when you said that "Jung's philosophy wasn't strong enough" or words to that effect, you made a desperate statement.

The word desperate comes from de-spirited. When you lose your spirit, the breath of Higher Power invigorating you and animating you, you suffer despair or the sense of being de-spirited.

I once felt that same way that you feel, but my enemy was communism. I believed that absolute ruthlessness won and won every time it got out of the gate. I remember in particular when idiot Palestinian terrorists or some Islamic group went and kidnapped a Russian plane. The KGB went out and hunted down the relatives of these criminals and cut off their genitals. No one hijacked a Russian plane again.

But the ruthlessness of the Russian governing elites was not balanced by other needed traits. So the Russky elite was not ruthless but charming, but harsh. They were cunning but not kind and, believing in the immortality of their movement and themselves, they didn't have Death as an adviser to tell them to be ruthless without being arrogant and cunning without being conceited.

This led to their downfall, which came about a lot quicker that I had ever imagined. I know now that I had too much faith in the power of evil.

I say that if you, CW, and you, PG, understood the design of the Spirit in your lives, you would be filled more with the Spirit and less with de-spirited or despair.

Then you would find Jung's take on the soul that we need to reclaim to escape the nihilistic side of patriarchy as essential. You would understand that real religion, what Isaac Newton was looking for, was essential to our health.

The only way to deal with great challenges is to have your soul free and your ego subordinated to the Self. Only then can avoid the Scylla and Charybdis, of the two opposing ways to fail.

The first way being non-action due to fear, that is cowardice or non-action due to lunacy, not being willing to admit that you have to deal with the harsh reality that presents itself to you or non-action due to sloth, a cardinal sin.

The second way being to over-react, sacrificing your good side and your soul and becoming demonic, becoming what your enemy is to defeat your enemy, winning the world but losing your own soul in the process.

Now, last point, once again about deportation, CW. Do you want an overthrow of our government to begin this policy? Do you understand that such a right-wing coup would begin a civil war here in our own country? Do you understand that if you wanted to get the vast majority of US citizens to go along with this you at least need some better means of communication?

____________________
"The force and degree of a man's inner benevolence evokes in others a proportionate degree of ill-will" - Gurdjieff

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell

Psycho Gizmo
Guest

Joined:
Location:
Posts:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 05:52 am

Corvus, Corvus, Corvus! I am curious about exactly what you are complaining about now? That seems to be your base personality state (most of your serious posts are complaining). Roy and CW were having a valuable, spirited and EMOTIONALLY HONEST exchange, and you are upset about it. OOOO MY GOODNESS, SHE'S SO ANGRY!!! OOOOOHHH!!!CALL THE UN!! CALL THE COPS!! CALL THE NICENESS POLICE!!!

Corvus I must say, as usual, I think that you don't know what the f*ck you are talking about (though the vacuum between your ears may resonate at an audibly-high frequency some times), and yet you keep writing with the assumed air of a "serious thinker". Hmmm...why are you so driven to protect Roy by hurling veiled (as always) character and style-indictments (instead of attacking the content) at me and CW ? Do you think that Roy is incapable of defending himself, son? I think not. He's the ADMINSTRATOR HERE FER CHRISAKKES!

Corvus, (you little crybaby), you are certainly entitled to your opinion that we are indulging in low character, excessive hyperbole or vituperation. Yet, turnabout is fair play, (when it comes to violations of propriety), as they say, eh? That is my refutation to your childish stab at tsk-tsking me and CW from some mythical moral highground you claim as Clown Prince of the Disaffiliated - trumpeter of Unwritten Music, Preacher of Nothing, Nothing Still and Forever Nothing. Spare us your condescension, strident, fence-post-up-the-*ss nihilist! At least some are willing to take a moral stand, and to defend it against assualt. The clown suit fits far better than the cuirass. Or perhaps a nice dress for the woman-in-a-man's-body that is Nathan (tee-hee) !

As many, you sob about the importance of free expression, up to the point where it becomes uncomfortable for you personally. This is raw anger. This topic and recent posts are ABOUT RAW, INSTINCTIVE REACTIVE RIGHTEOUS, ANGER. It's normal, but your reaction is not. YOU NEED TO WAKE UP. My BROTHER. Before the weapons of the Evil Ones does... Naw. Better if you stay asleep, people like yourself, who are unwilling to truly whole-heartedly commit to anything moral and uncompromising, just end up getting in the way...

Perhaps you'd like to bring Jerome back to moderate us and make us into good little girls and boys like you and yours? What a hypocrite. Do us all a favor and go wander off on some winding pointless nature-path to NOWHERE as is usually your want....serious discussions are for adults.

Believe me, I know. As soon as a serious discussion results from your whining, you will lose all interest and wander away into some cryptic or wistful tangent that is full of confusion and yet, that lingering, toxic, vicious passive-aggression that is also your hallmark. Did you know that? At least our hostility is out in the open and self-acknowledged, unlike the hidden poison daggers that you always procure in prosaic combat, favoring the ambush and the cowardly shiv in the kidneys.

WHAT? No ironic, compact, nebulous-yet-scathing response to that? Come on, we're all waiting! Let the serious thinker speak!!! Yo started it, so finish it.

Here, I'll help you, sonny.

Corvus: You and CW are being unreasonable and abusive specifically because...

What's the matter, Corv? The brain cells won't cooperate with your desire to righteously condemn people for normal expressions of anger, outrage and hurt for perceived discourtesy and abusiveness? The refuge of vagueness and all-consuming emotion will not furnish any strong rational defense for your savage indictment? Gosh...what a f*cking surprise...

You once said that my posts sometimes made you feel "defeated". Have you ever considered that might be because you set yourself up for it by taking morally indefensible stands and making stupid insensitive accusations such as the above? Oh, there's that dirty, repulsive term on my lips again again - SERIOUS THOUGHT. Ooops. Sorry.

Last edited on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 06:08 am by

Psycho Gizmo
Guest

Joined:
Location:
Posts:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 06:05 am

Roy wrote: What the Lifeboat lefties have in common with CW here is desperation.

CW, when you said that "Jung's philosophy wasn't strong enough" or words to that effect, you made a desperate statement.

The word desperate comes from de-spirited. When you lose your spirit, the breath of Higher Power invigorating you and animating you, you suffer despair or the sense of being de-spirited.

I once felt that same way that you feel, but my enemy was communism. I believed that absolute ruthlessness won and won every time it got out of the gate. I remember in particular when idiot Palestinian terrorists or some Islamic group went and kidnapped a Russian plane. The KGB went out and hunted down the relatives of these criminals and cut off their genitals. No one hijacked a Russian plane again.

But the ruthlessness of the Russian governing elites was not balanced by other needed traits. So the Russky elite was not ruthless but charming, but harsh. They were cunning but not kind and, believing in the immortality of their movement and themselves, they didn't have Death as an adviser to tell them to be ruthless without being arrogant and cunning without being conceited.

This led to their downfall, which came about a lot quicker that I had ever imagined. I know now that I had too much faith in the power of evil.

I say that if you, CW, and you, PG, understood the design of the Spirit in your lives, you would be filled more with the Spirit and less with de-spirited or despair.

Then you would find Jung's take on the soul that we need to reclaim to escape the nihilistic side of patriarchy as essential. You would understand that real religion, what Isaac Newton was looking for, was essential to our health.

The only way to deal with great challenges is to have your soul free and your ego subordinated to the Self. Only then can avoid the Scylla and Charybdis, of the two opposing ways to fail.

The first way being non-action due to fear, that is cowardice or non-action due to lunacy, not being willing to admit that you have to deal with the harsh reality that presents itself to you or non-action due to sloth, a cardinal sin.

The second way being to over-react, sacrificing your good side and your soul and becoming demonic, becoming what your enemy is to defeat your enemy, winning the world but losing your own soul in the process.

Now, last point, once again about deportation, CW. Do you want an overthrow of our government to begin this policy? Do you understand that such a right-wing coup would begin a civil war here in our own country? Do you understand that if you wanted to get the vast majority of US citizens to go along with this you at least need some better means of communication?

Roy, I'll go as far as to admit that you've made some good tangent points in this thread. Yet it still seems to me that no appologies, excuses nor altering of communications style (heheh) are due from me or CW for any "desperation" or other fundamental errors in thought or application of rhetoric, (esp. considering the circumstances). If there are such to be rendered, I perceive that they should eminate from another source. Perhaps some time for reflection from all of you would be appropriate. I do not include myself or CW in that because I am by nature, very introspective and apt to question my own motives and reactions far more than that average veck and as much as any other Grove member here tonight. And though I do not presume to speak for the lady, I think that goes for CW as well.

Sorry I cannot be more agreeable. Anger is an energy. It is only a sin in quarters where illusions or "niceness" are mantained as some sort of perverse idolotry.

Corvus
Honored Fellow Grover

Joined:	Tue Apr 5th, 2005
Location:	Wisconsin USA
Posts:	913
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 07:39 am

Psycho Gizmo wrote: Corvus, Corvus, Corvus! I am curious about exactly what you are complaining about now? That seems to be your base personality state (most of your serious posts are complaining). Roy and CW were having a valuable, spirited and EMOTIONALLY HONEST exchange, and you are upset about it. OOOO MY GOODNESS, SHE'S SO ANGRY!!! OOOOOHHH!!!CALL THE UN!! CALL THE COPS!! CALL THE NICENESS POLICE!!!

Corvus I must say, as usual, I think that you don't know what the f*ck you are talking about (though the vacuum between your ears may resonate at an audibly-high frequency some times), and yet you keep writing with the assumed air of a "serious thinker". Hmmm...why are you so driven to protect Roy by hurling veiled (as always) character and style-indictments (instead of attacking the content) at me and CW ? Do you think that Roy is incapable of defending himself, son? I think not. He's the ADMINSTRATOR HERE FER CHRISAKKES!

Corvus, (you little crybaby), you are certainly entitled to your opinion that we are indulging in low character, excessive hyperbole or vituperation. Yet, turnabout is fair play, (when it comes to violations of propriety), as they say, eh? That is my refutation to your childish stab at tsk-tsking me and CW from some mythical moral highground you claim as Clown Prince of the Disaffiliated - trumpeter of Unwritten Music, Preacher of Nothing, Nothing Still and Forever Nothing. Spare us your condescension, strident, fence-post-up-the-*ss nihilist! At least some are willing to take a moral stand, and to defend it against assualt. The clown suit fits far better than the cuirass. Or perhaps a nice dress for the woman-in-a-man's-body that is Nathan (tee-hee) !

As many, you sob about the importance of free expression, up to the point where it becomes uncomfortable for you personally. This is raw anger. This topic and recent posts are ABOUT RAW, INSTINCTIVE REACTIVE RIGHTEOUS, ANGER. It's normal, but your reaction is not. YOU NEED TO WAKE UP. My BROTHER. Before the weapons of the Evil Ones does... Naw. Better if you stay asleep, people like yourself, who are unwilling to truly whole-heartedly commit to anything moral and uncompromising, just end up getting in the way...

Perhaps you'd like to bring Jerome back to moderate us and make us into good little girls and boys like you and yours? What a hypocrite. Do us all a favor and go wander off on some winding pointless nature-path to NOWHERE as is usually your want....serious discussions are for adults.

Believe me, I know. As soon as a serious discussion results from your whining, you will lose all interest and wander away into some cryptic or wistful tangent that is full of confusion and yet, that lingering, toxic, vicious passive-aggression that is also your hallmark. Did you know that? At least our hostility is out in the open and self-acknowledged, unlike the hidden poison daggers that you always procure in prosaic combat, favoring the ambush and the cowardly shiv in the kidneys.

WHAT? No ironic, compact, nebulous-yet-scathing response to that? Come on, we're all waiting! Let the serious thinker speak!!! Yo started it, so finish it.

Here, I'll help you, sonny.

Corvus: You and CW are being unreasonable and abusive specifically because...

What's the matter, Corv? The brain cells won't cooperate with your desire to righteously condemn people for normal expressions of anger, outrage and hurt for perceived discourtesy and abusiveness? The refuge of vagueness and all-consuming emotion will not furnish any strong rational defense for your savage indictment? Gosh...what a f*cking surprise...

You once said that my posts sometimes made you feel "defeated". Have you ever considered that might be because you set yourself up for it by taking morally indefensible stands and making stupid insensitive accusations such as the above? Oh, there's that dirty, repulsive term on my lips again again - SERIOUS THOUGHT. Ooops. Sorry.

Yet you give me so much attention . . .

Psycho Gizmo
Guest

Joined:
Location:
Posts:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 08:07 am

True, now I'll give you a little advice. You don't have to quote the entire post. It takes up a lot of space, man. Bumpty dumpty doo!!!

Corvus
Honored Fellow Grover

Joined:	Tue Apr 5th, 2005
Location:	Wisconsin USA
Posts:	913
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 08:10 am

As poorly qualified as I am to take personal action and stand up and fight for our heritage, traditions, and values, I hope you will bear with me while I begin this sincere and earnest attempt. And please don't get mad with me if, in doing so, I must shield people from Mr. PG's malicious and gutless deceptions. I will start this discussion by arguing that PG cares for us in the same way that fleas care about dogs. Then, I will present evidence that PG wants to heat the cauldron of terror until it boils over into our daily lives. Why he wants that, I don't know, but that's what he wants. He would have us believe that society is supposed to be lenient towards the most offensive deadbeats I've ever seen. That, of course, is nonsense, total nonsense. But PG is surrounded by hidebound ivory-tower academics who parrot the same nonsense, which is why I cannot compromise with him; he is without principles. I cannot reason with him; he is without reason. But I can warn him, and with a warning he must really take to heart: His method (or school, or ideology -- it is hard to know exactly what to call it) goes by the name of "PG-ism". It is a brassbound and avowedly uninformed philosophy that aims to defy the rules of logic. This is particularly interesting when you consider that PG is right about one thing, namely that fear is what motivates us. Fear of what it means when jejune lackwits bowdlerize all unfavorable descriptions of his endeavors. Fear of what it says about our society when we teach our children that the rest of us are an inferior group of people, fit only to be enslaved, beaten, and butchered at the whim of our betters. And fear of viperine killjoys like PG who numb the public to the Stalinism and injustice in mainstream politics. Yes, I realize that he should stop bellyaching and start healing himself, but for the sake of brevity I've had to express myself in simplified terms.

For the sake of concreteness, whenever PG announces that he can walk on water, his collaborators applaud on cue and the accolades are long and ostentatious. What's funny is that they don't provide similar feedback whenever I tell them that PG's hypnopompic insights are a load of bunk. I use this delightfully pejorative term, "bunk" -- an alternative from the same page of my criminal-slang lexicon would serve just as well -- because a colleague recently informed me that a bunch of mutinous incubi and others in PG's amen corner are about to court an irritable minority of treacherous braggarts. I have no reason to doubt that story because PG maintains that the few of us who complain regularly about his grievances are simply spoiling the party. Perhaps it would be best for him to awaken from his delusional narcoleptic fantasyland and observe that what we're involved in with him is not a game. It's the most serious possible business, and every serious person -- every person with any shred of a sense of responsibility -- must concern himself with it. Wherever you look, you'll see PG enforcing intolerance in the name of tolerance. You'll see him suppressing freedom in the name of freedom. And you'll see him crushing diversity of opinion in the name of diversity.

Plainly stated, I have never been in favor of being gratuitously vitriolic. I have also never been in favor of sticking my head in the sand or of refusing to think outside the box. Indeed, PG's ideals have a distinctly noxious tone. The best example of this, culled from many, would have to be the time PG tried to rip off everyone and his brother.

I would like to digress here. PG keeps telling us that cankered, effete quidnuncs are more deserving of honor than our nation's war heroes. Are we also supposed to believe that we're supposed to shut up and smile when he says obtuse, pestilential things? I didn't think so.

We all learned the Golden Rule in school. Maybe PG was absent that day. His values are so inverted, they would make Lewis Carroll blush. With enough time and room, it would be easy to show why this must be true, but the clinching argument is simply that I suppose it's predictable, though terribly sad, that horny, cuckoo meanies with stronger voices than minds would revert to licentious behavior. But when people say that bigotry and hate are alive and well, they're right. And PG is to blame.

Wanting to insult my intelligence is one thing, but why would anybody possibly want to undermine the basic values of work, responsibility, and family? We should be able to look into our own souls for the answer. If we do, I suspect we'll find that his forces suspect that "human beings should be appraised by the number of things and the amount of money they possess instead of by their internal value and achievements." First off, that's a lousy sentence. If they had written that PG is hell-bent on suppressing our freedom, then that quote would have had more validity. As it stands, I've heard PG say that newspapers should report only on items he agrees with. Was that just a slip of the lip or is PG secretly trying to resort to underhanded tactics? The answer may surprise you, especially when you consider that his lies come in many forms. Some of his lies are in the form of hatchet jobs. Others are in the form of sophistries. Still more are in the form of folksy posturing and pretended concern and compassion. PG will do everything in his power to tap into the national resurgence of overt immoralism. No wonder corruption is endemic to our society; in order to solve the big problems with PG, we must first understand these problems, and to understand them, we must take up the all-encompassing challenge of freedom, justice, equality, and the pursuit of life with full dignity. If it is not yet clear that he has been working overtime to usher in the rule of the Antichrist and the apocalyptic end times, then consider that there's a time to keep silent and a time to speak. There's a time to love and a time to hate. There's a time for war and a time for peace. And, I believe, there's a time to help people see PG's incompetent pleas for what they are. Or, to put it less poetically, PG claims that he is a tireless protector of civil rights and civil liberties for all people. Well, I beg to differ. I once had a nightmare in which he was free to make our lives an endless treadmill of government interferences while providing few real benefits to our health and happiness. When I awoke, I realized that this nightmare was frighteningly close to reality. For instance, it is the case both in my nightmare and in reality that we have a dilemma of leviathan proportions on our hands: Should we throw down the gauntlet and challenge PG's spokesmen to recall the ideals of compassion, nonviolence, community, and cooperation, or is it sufficient to challenge the present and enrich the future? Well, I asked the question, so I should answer it. Let me start by saying that it is easy to see faults in others. But it takes perseverance to empower the oppressed to control their own lives while remaining true to those beliefs, ideals, and aspirations we hold most dear.

For a variety of reasons, some strategic, some ideological, some attitudinal, and all of them wrong, predaceous galoots adopt approaches that have not been tested to try to solve problems that have not been well-defined. Does PG remember the hurt and hate in the eyes of the people he made fun of just so others would like him more? Even if he does, I'm sure he doesn't care, because I undeniably dislike PG. Likes or dislikes, however, are irrelevant to observed facts, such as that PG wants nothing less than to hijack the word "counterrevolutionary" and use it to present a false image to the world by hiding unpleasant but vitally important realities about his reports, hence his repeated, almost hypnotic, insistence on the importance of his randy self-fulfilling prophecies. In that respect, we can say that mankind needs to do more to establish clear, justifiable definitions of hedonism and nativism so that you can defend a decision to take action when his loyalists peddle the snake oil of snooty Jacobinism. Understand, I am not condemning mankind for not doing enough; I am merely stating that PG wants to crush the remaining vestiges of democracy throughout the world. Personally, I don't want that. Personally, I prefer freedom. If you also prefer freedom, then you should be working with me to purge the darkness from his heart.

PG supports a wide variety of perorations. Some are combative; others are litigious. A few openly support fascism. Although it requires risk, commitment, and follow-through to respond to his publicity stunts, he should not pose a threat to personal autonomy and social development. Not now, not ever. I myself might be able to forgive him, but only if he promises never again to give rise to the most squalid cult leaders I've ever seen. PG's stances are based on two fundamental errors. They assume that PG has achieved sainthood. And they promote the mistaken idea that he answers to no one.

Eventually, PG might be diagnosed with a special type of mental illness that is not yet recognized. But for now, be aware that he hates you -- yes, you, because you, like me, want to make technical preparations for the achievement of freedom and human independence. His pledge not to consign our traditional values to the rubbish heap of animalism is merely empty rhetoric, invoked on occasion for theatrical effect but otherwise studiously ignored. He carries nothing but hatred and destruction in his heart. But even if we disregard all that and examine only his bookish lamentations, this seems to me to be enough to show that if he would abandon his name-calling and false dichotomies it would be much easier for me to pronounce the truth and renounce the lies.

Rather than persuade you myself that PG is a scion of spleeny dunces, I decided to gather input from various independent observers: teachers, farmers, shopkeepers, doctors, and so forth. I've tried to get balanced and reasonably accurate views about PG's tendentious principles. For instance, a policeman I interviewed pointed out how PG's gofers believe that it's okay for PG to indulge his every whim and lust without regard for anyone else or for society as a whole. It should not be surprising that they believe this, however. As we all know, minds that have been so maimed that they believe that PG can override nature can believe anything, especially if it's false. In closing, Mr. PG is never without a reckless thing to say.

Corvus
Honored Fellow Grover

Joined:	Tue Apr 5th, 2005
Location:	Wisconsin USA
Posts:	913
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 08:23 am

Further more . . .

If I were to summarize Chief Psycho Gizmo's snivelling rodomontades I'd need only one word: nettlesome. It is worth noting at the outset that the ultimate aim of Chief Gizmo's magic-bullet explanations is to restructure society as a pyramid with Chief Gizmo at the top, Chief Gizmo's loyalists directly underneath, warped vermin beneath them, and the rest of at the bottom. This new societal structure will enable Chief Gizmo to impinge upon our daily lives, which makes me realize that his thesis is that embracing a system of fanaticism will make everything right with the world. That's entirely ugly, you say? Good; that means you're finally catching on. The next step is to observe that all of the bad things that are currently going on are a symptom of Chief Gizmo's soulless undertakings. They are not a cause; they are an effect. For what it's worth, there's no shortage of sin in the world today. It's been around since the Garden of Eden and will sincerely persist as long as Chief Gizmo continues to jawbone aimlessly. I have a T-shirt emblazoned with the following inscription: "This is a proscribed thought vs. free inquiry issue, an anti-democracy vs. democracy issue, and yes, a police state vs. free society issue." I like to wear that T-shirt to make a point about how if we don't soon tell Chief Gizmo to stop what he's doing, he will proceed with his brusque opinions, considerably emboldened by our lack of resistance. We will have tacitly given Chief Gizmo our permission to do so.

If you're still reading this letter, I wish to compliment you for being sufficiently open-minded to understand that Chief Gizmo is driving me nuts. I can't take it anymore! While there is no evidence that I indisputably disagree with his unenlightened crotchets, it is clear that his confreres can be stereotyped as power-hungry tools of prepackaged political ideology and subversive spoilsports to boot. But the problems with his pranks don't end there.

I have two words for Chief Gizmo: Grow up! Maybe he has a reason for acting the way he does, but I doubt it. I find his beliefs (as I would certainly not call them logically reasoned arguments) rather disgraceful, don't you? Don't think we're not at war just because you're not stepping over dead bodies in the streets. We're at war with Chief Gizmo's obstinate, oligophrenic catch-phrases. We're at war with his parasitic strictures. And we're at war with his bitter anecdotes. As in any war, we ought to be aware of the fact that Chief Gizmo's tasteless histrionics can be quite educational. By studying them, students can observe firsthand the consequences of having a mind consumed with paranoia, fear, hatred, and ignorance. Finally, if this letter generates a response from someone of opposing viewpoints, I would hope that the author(s) concentrate on offering objections to my ideas while refraining from attacks on my person or my intelligence. I've gotten enough of that already from Chief Psycho Gizmo

Classic Woman
Guest

Joined:
Location:
Posts:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 11:19 am

I am not desperate Roy and I do not want an overthrow of any government. I do know that the experts in the terrorism conferences I attend such as James Woolsey said that our government is not going to be able to handle this scourge and we are in for a rude awakening. He would not elaborate on that statement, I guess due to his position as ex CIA Director. However, he did announce that Bin Laden's thugs (Adnan Shukrijumi) already have nuclear weapons in the US which have been smuggled through southern california and now they have lost the trail. They are waiting until the right moment to strike. Myself, from all my studies, I am guessing that they will wait until the muslim population in the US is much higher but that is only a guess of mine since no one really knows.

The writing is on the wall, europe is in deep shit and on the verge of civil war with the muslims while you defend them. INstead of going on some psychological trip with me, I suggest we focus on Islam and muslims. After all, it is all over the newspapers and blogs and I am only here to confirm what is all over the media from my own personal experiences.

Islam is not communism. Islam is millitant totalitarianism disguised in theocracy. Again, you do not see Islam in it's own merit, you constantly compare Islam to some other ideology and it is unique and on it's own.

Again, shame on you for not standing up for your fellow countrymen when they are in trouble.

By the way, I don't like to speak without experience on any topic, so I will have to admit that my family was deported from Indonesia in 1959 (before I was born) and I grew up as a member of a family of "displaced persons" (google it if you don't know what it is). And guess what?  My whole family survived it and are quite healthy.

It ain't as bad as you think. Mom and Dad had a tough time, but life can be a whole lot worse. They could have been killed instead.

There is a whole lot of shit going on in the world that is a whole lot worse than deporation, but again, I don't mind if you abhor it. The western governments are doing it without your approval so I have no reason to continue the debate on that.

I do however take issue that get into a position where you have to defend your countrymen and co-religionists you will betray them.

You are all a product of Christendom whether you like it or not. And to take the side of the enemy just becuase you met them and they seem like nice people, well, just gives me the creeps knowing there are more out there who think that way. And to find reason to defend the enemy living next door simply out of naiivity and ignorance also gives me the creeps.

Here are some sources:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina40425.htm

http://www.conservativebookservice.com/products/
bookpage.asp?prod_cd=c6649

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?
ID=19191

http://www.amazon.com/Wests-Last-Chance-Clash-
Civilizations/dp/0895260158

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=129090&page=1

Should I post more sources?

This is a very good example of me and Roy. I am Ayan Hirsi Ali and Roy is Darrell Isa (R) California.

Corvus is Steve Weber and Bill Mahr is PG.

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/02/25/video-ayaan-
hirsi-ali-schools-darrell-issa-on-dhimmitude/

Psycho Gizmo
Guest

Joined:
Location:
Posts:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 12:25 pm

Nicely expressed and to the point, CW. Bravo. Your post was everything that "dunce-cap's" was not. Oh, and Corvus, when you start using phrases like, "parasitic strictures" and " snivelling rodomontades" (GAWD!) you really must put the prose through some type of gobbledygook editor, so that we who mash it through our minds can actually derive some cogent sense from it, instead of tepid amusement that you are trying to emulate the superfluous aspects of someone who can actually write in an entertaining and informative way, such as well, I don't know, me and CW...

If I weren't inflammatory, I wouldn't be me..." Pianist, Vocalist, Composer, Tori Amos, responding to critics.

As CW has taught me from her long years of persecution for speaking only the truth as she sees it, I will wear Corvus's scorn and loquacious yea, interminable vituperative meanderings as a badge of the most profound and meaningful honor. Thank you brother. Never has Coruvs said so much to say so little about anyone who put their foot to his *ss as I have recently.

Really, I have not felt this good about myself since I personally castigated, eviscerated the "arguments" and drove off the Rabid Dog, XYZ off the Grove forever, spewing spittle and venom as he scurried off. Perhaps Corvus will leave now. At last. Now that he has fully vented his spleen at all of our expense.

And prey tell why are you so g*ddamn upset about being made a pathetic, wan, flaccid fool of on the Grove all of a sudden Bird Boy? I've been saying that you're a superfluous twit for years, not just recently. It may be time, as I said, for you to throw the obligatory "semantic tizzy"( step one and two above, step three and four on other posts) and f*ck off for awhile to allow the truly serious thinkers to post.

Really Corvus, your ill mannerisms are far more amusing when you make no attempt at trying to be perceived as serious. It's like watching a twelve year old trying to use verbiage to intimidate the older students like a Wallstreet attorney or a kindergartner misusing the biggest words he can remember in order to be seen as a "grown-up".

"...too many notes, Mozart...." The King of Austria, commenting on the unveiling of The Magic Flute.

YAWN....these last few posts will be your legacy. Sputtering desperate insults and rendering a tribute guised as an indictment of PG and Co. A fitting end for your character- the CLOWN WITHOUT MAKE-UP, Corvus the Superfluous, mighty believer in Nothing and defender of the rights of arch- Nihilists everywhere to go on sleep walking without disturbance or arousal, and who only are roused to life when kicked in the slats for snoring. Metaphorically speaking of course.

Game, set, match.

Last edited on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 12:33 pm by

Classic Woman
Guest

Joined:
Location:
Posts:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 02:05 pm

Well PG, Corvus has a problem with men like you who respect the intellect of women. He just wanted to mock you in the most extreme way out of either jealousy or he does not quite respect the intellect of women so he wants to belittle me and you with heckling. I don't know, I am just guessing what motivates him. It is usually what liberals do when they can't debate the facts with their own facts.

*Phil*
Opinionated Interventionist

Joined:	Thu Apr 21st, 2005
Location:	North Carolina USA
Posts:	3598
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 05:33 pm

Corvus wrote: As poorly qualified as I am to take personal action and stand up and fight for our heritage, traditions, and values, I hope you will bear with me while I begin this sincere and earnest attempt. And please don't get mad with me if, in doing so, I must shield people from Mr. PG's malicious and gutless deceptions. I will start this discussion by arguing that PG cares for us in the same way that fleas care about dogs. Then, I will present evidence that PG wants to heat the cauldron of terror until it boils over into our daily lives. Why he wants that, I don't know, but that's what he wants. He would have us believe that society is supposed to be lenient towards the most offensive deadbeats I've ever seen. That, of course, is nonsense, total nonsense. But PG is surrounded by hidebound ivory-tower academics who parrot the same nonsense, which is why I cannot compromise with him; he is without principles. I cannot reason with him; he is without reason. But I can warn him, and with a warning he must really take to heart: His method (or school, or ideology -- it is hard to know exactly what to call it) goes by the name of "PG-ism". It is a brassbound and avowedly uninformed philosophy that aims to defy the rules of logic. This is particularly interesting when you consider that PG is right about one thing, namely that fear is what motivates us. Fear of what it means when jejune lackwits bowdlerize all unfavorable descriptions of his endeavors. Fear of what it says about our society when we teach our children that the rest of us are an inferior group of people, fit only to be enslaved, beaten, and butchered at the whim of our betters. And fear of viperine killjoys like PG who numb the public to the Stalinism and injustice in mainstream politics. Yes, I realize that he should stop bellyaching and start healing himself, but for the sake of brevity I've had to express myself in simplified terms.

For the sake of concreteness, whenever PG announces that he can walk on water, his collaborators applaud on cue and the accolades are long and ostentatious. What's funny is that they don't provide similar feedback whenever I tell them that PG's hypnopompic insights are a load of bunk. I use this delightfully pejorative term, "bunk" -- an alternative from the same page of my criminal-slang lexicon would serve just as well -- because a colleague recently informed me that a bunch of mutinous incubi and others in PG's amen corner are about to court an irritable minority of treacherous braggarts. I have no reason to doubt that story because PG maintains that the few of us who complain regularly about his grievances are simply spoiling the party. Perhaps it would be best for him to awaken from his delusional narcoleptic fantasyland and observe that what we're involved in with him is not a game. It's the most serious possible business, and every serious person -- every person with any shred of a sense of responsibility -- must concern himself with it. Wherever you look, you'll see PG enforcing intolerance in the name of tolerance. You'll see him suppressing freedom in the name of freedom. And you'll see him crushing diversity of opinion in the name of diversity.

Plainly stated, I have never been in favor of being gratuitously vitriolic. I have also never been in favor of sticking my head in the sand or of refusing to think outside the box. Indeed, PG's ideals have a distinctly noxious tone. The best example of this, culled from many, would have to be the time PG tried to rip off everyone and his brother.

I would like to digress here. PG keeps telling us that cankered, effete quidnuncs are more deserving of honor than our nation's war heroes. Are we also supposed to believe that we're supposed to shut up and smile when he says obtuse, pestilential things? I didn't think so.

We all learned the Golden Rule in school. Maybe PG was absent that day. His values are so inverted, they would make Lewis Carroll blush. With enough time and room, it would be easy to show why this must be true, but the clinching argument is simply that I suppose it's predictable, though terribly sad, that horny, cuckoo meanies with stronger voices than minds would revert to licentious behavior. But when people say that bigotry and hate are alive and well, they're right. And PG is to blame.

Wanting to insult my intelligence is one thing, but why would anybody possibly want to undermine the basic values of work, responsibility, and family? We should be able to look into our own souls for the answer. If we do, I suspect we'll find that his forces suspect that "human beings should be appraised by the number of things and the amount of money they possess instead of by their internal value and achievements." First off, that's a lousy sentence. If they had written that PG is hell-bent on suppressing our freedom, then that quote would have had more validity. As it stands, I've heard PG say that newspapers should report only on items he agrees with. Was that just a slip of the lip or is PG secretly trying to resort to underhanded tactics? The answer may surprise you, especially when you consider that his lies come in many forms. Some of his lies are in the form of hatchet jobs. Others are in the form of sophistries. Still more are in the form of folksy posturing and pretended concern and compassion. PG will do everything in his power to tap into the national resurgence of overt immoralism. No wonder corruption is endemic to our society; in order to solve the big problems with PG, we must first understand these problems, and to understand them, we must take up the all-encompassing challenge of freedom, justice, equality, and the pursuit of life with full dignity. If it is not yet clear that he has been working overtime to usher in the rule of the Antichrist and the apocalyptic end times, then consider that there's a time to keep silent and a time to speak. There's a time to love and a time to hate. There's a time for war and a time for peace. And, I believe, there's a time to help people see PG's incompetent pleas for what they are. Or, to put it less poetically, PG claims that he is a tireless protector of civil rights and civil liberties for all people. Well, I beg to differ. I once had a nightmare in which he was free to make our lives an endless treadmill of government interferences while providing few real benefits to our health and happiness. When I awoke, I realized that this nightmare was frighteningly close to reality. For instance, it is the case both in my nightmare and in reality that we have a dilemma of leviathan proportions on our hands: Should we throw down the gauntlet and challenge PG's spokesmen to recall the ideals of compassion, nonviolence, community, and cooperation, or is it sufficient to challenge the present and enrich the future? Well, I asked the question, so I should answer it. Let me start by saying that it is easy to see faults in others. But it takes perseverance to empower the oppressed to control their own lives while remaining true to those beliefs, ideals, and aspirations we hold most dear.

For a variety of reasons, some strategic, some ideological, some attitudinal, and all of them wrong, predaceous galoots adopt approaches that have not been tested to try to solve problems that have not been well-defined. Does PG remember the hurt and hate in the eyes of the people he made fun of just so others would like him more? Even if he does, I'm sure he doesn't care, because I undeniably dislike PG. Likes or dislikes, however, are irrelevant to observed facts, such as that PG wants nothing less than to hijack the word "counterrevolutionary" and use it to present a false image to the world by hiding unpleasant but vitally important realities about his reports, hence his repeated, almost hypnotic, insistence on the importance of his randy self-fulfilling prophecies. In that respect, we can say that mankind needs to do more to establish clear, justifiable definitions of hedonism and nativism so that you can defend a decision to take action when his loyalists peddle the snake oil of snooty Jacobinism. Understand, I am not condemning mankind for not doing enough; I am merely stating that PG wants to crush the remaining vestiges of democracy throughout the world. Personally, I don't want that. Personally, I prefer freedom. If you also prefer freedom, then you should be working with me to purge the darkness from his heart.

PG supports a wide variety of perorations. Some are combative; others are litigious. A few openly support fascism. Although it requires risk, commitment, and follow-through to respond to his publicity stunts, he should not pose a threat to personal autonomy and social development. Not now, not ever. I myself might be able to forgive him, but only if he promises never again to give rise to the most squalid cult leaders I've ever seen. PG's stances are based on two fundamental errors. They assume that PG has achieved sainthood. And they promote the mistaken idea that he answers to no one.

Eventually, PG might be diagnosed with a special type of mental illness that is not yet recognized. But for now, be aware that he hates you -- yes, you, because you, like me, want to make technical preparations for the achievement of freedom and human independence. His pledge not to consign our traditional values to the rubbish heap of animalism is merely empty rhetoric, invoked on occasion for theatrical effect but otherwise studiously ignored. He carries nothing but hatred and destruction in his heart. But even if we disregard all that and examine only his bookish lamentations, this seems to me to be enough to show that if he would abandon his name-calling and false dichotomies it would be much easier for me to pronounce the truth and renounce the lies.

Rather than persuade you myself that PG is a scion of spleeny dunces, I decided to gather input from various independent observers: teachers, farmers, shopkeepers, doctors, and so forth. I've tried to get balanced and reasonably accurate views about PG's tendentious principles. For instance, a policeman I interviewed pointed out how PG's gofers believe that it's okay for PG to indulge his every whim and lust without regard for anyone else or for society as a whole. It should not be surprising that they believe this, however. As we all know, minds that have been so maimed that they believe that PG can override nature can believe anything, especially if it's false. In closing, Mr. PG is never without a reckless thing to say.

I lol'd

____________________
Pecca fortiter, sed fortius fide et gaude in Christo!
Galactic Signature: Blue Self-Existing Monkey

Roy
Quasi-Infallible Egocentric Tyrant

Joined:	Mon Apr 4th, 2005
Location:	Washington USA
Posts:	4326
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 06:39 pm

Christian morality, Christian precepts such as Christi's Golden Rule, are at the basis of our democracy, albeit having been translated there by Freemasons, not orthodox Christians, in our constitution.

Deporting US citizens because they are Muslims is legally and politically impossible and will remain politically and legally impossible because it is not necessary.

I don't have some kind of misplaced faith in moderate Muslims to morph, but I do have a real faith based on the truth that all humans are invested with a soul by their Creator/Creatrix and that, in the long run, they will have to come to terms to being the bearers of that aforesaid soul.

I have met and gotten to know young men and women raised by Berkeley pacifists and atheists who want to sign up for the Air Force, know God exists and remember dying in WW II. In Italy I taught English to the daughter of a famous Italian communist songwriter who was a practicing Hindu, a vegetarian and who believed in God and reincarnation. I have seen ex-fascists give up fascism and communists give up communism.

What I am saying is that Muslims are human and they can change. That is why Sicily gradually became a Catholic island. Islam died out. If we keep immigration down, and monitor the imams, the exposure to reason and conscience of our culture will win.

It is true especially for the Muslim women. They are the ones in Iran who are the backbone of the real will to overthrow that Islamic state. American Muslim women will provide that same impetus here as well.

And my statement truth is verified by the fact that Muslim men in Holland want wives from outside Holland because the Dutch-raised Muslim woman has a Western sense of her own rights.

CW, you take me to a chat room that is secure to let me hear from ex-Muslims who have quit and then you tell me, in effect, that Muslims won't and don't quit? Hell, atheists can't keep their kids from coming to God and Islam dies out in Sicily. Islam is not bullet-proof.

Bearing a soul happens by developing a conscience and learning to reason. When I offer a reasoned approach, I get no response from CW or PG about my reasoning that monitoring immigrants, watching the movement of money or other suggestions, I don't even get a "we could try that but I don't think it would work".

What I get is anger. Why is this the case? Lack of faith in one's position. Vanity offended. These are the most likely reasons.

When I ask you, PG, to tell me what we are doing in Iraq if you believe that Muslims are so dangerous as to generally merit a death penalty or something similar, you have no answer. Why don't you address that point, PG?

So tell me how your solution is Christian, would you? Tell me that your church's members will listen to you, CW, about all this? About your "solution".

Roy
Quasi-Infallible Egocentric Tyrant

Joined:	Mon Apr 4th, 2005
Location:	Washington USA
Posts:	4326
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 06:44 pm

quid·nunc

(kwĭd'nŭngk') Pronunciation Key
n. A nosy person; a busybody.

Who wrote that, Corvus? You?

You have finally unmasked yourself or you have a friend? It doesn't sound like the introverted feeler I have had you pegged as.

I actually had to look up quidnunc which I knew literally in Latin means "that-now" or something similar.

Roy
Quasi-Infallible Egocentric Tyrant

Joined:	Mon Apr 4th, 2005
Location:	Washington USA
Posts:	4326
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 06:54 pm

Corvus, kudos for your orchestration, but I think that someone named "Pandora" has written all that.

Yes, your substance, but not your style. Used my Jung voo-doo doll. Get one. Only $8.95 plus tax!

Last edited on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 06:56 pm by Roy

Roy
Quasi-Infallible Egocentric Tyrant

Joined:	Mon Apr 4th, 2005
Location:	Washington USA
Posts:	4326
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 08:07 pm

Here is a picture of a moderate Muslim who I think truly loves America and demonstrates the absurdity of asking us adopt a policy of deporting a person because he is a Muslim.

Classic Woman
Guest

Joined:
Location:
Posts:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 08:59 pm

Your information is wrong again. You are making stuff up. Show me your evidence.

*Phil*
Opinionated Interventionist

Joined:	Thu Apr 21st, 2005
Location:	North Carolina USA
Posts:	3598
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 09:00 pm

Roy wrote:

Corvus, kudos for your orchestration, but I think that someone named "Pandora" has written all that.

Yes, your substance, but not your style. Used my Jung voo-doo doll. Get one. Only $8.95 plus tax!

Corvus is now definitely a contender for her job as a government bureaucrat editing volumes of worthless documents and calling them a "product". LOL

I saw the Freud doll at a flea market last Sunday. Now I want one.

____________________
Pecca fortiter, sed fortius fide et gaude in Christo!
Galactic Signature: Blue Self-Existing Monkey

Classic Woman
Guest

Joined:
Location:
Posts:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2007 09:14 pm

Roy that is very stupid. Muhamed Ali is brain dead. On top of that, you forgot to factor in that the Muslims are supposed to use al taqiyya to decieve non muslims until such a time that they have the upper hand and the man power to perform Jihad
At Talab and whatever non muslim is not killed is then subject to the Pact of Umar El Khataab.

You still don't understand the Koranic science of deception do you? Well history shows what happens to Christians and Jews.

I think you just want to fight. Writing long drawn out multiple subject posts, I do not have time to address every point.

Roy, face it, you don't know everything.

Current time is 10:50 am

Page:

1 2 3

Men's Ring - Dealing with Men's Issues	by mrindianajonesprm
[ Join Now \| Ring Hub \| Random \| << Prev \| Next >> ]